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Old 02-03-2008, 11:35 PM   #1
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Default Another Working MS!!!!

Well I finally got around to testing out my megasquirt in car ('91) right before the game. I still don't have the GM AIT installed, nor do I have the wire run to the fuel pump wire under the dash. Amazingly enough though, after a little cranking the engine stumbled and started to fire. Low and behold, the engine idled. It seemed fine even though in addition to the above mentioned issues CLT wasn't showing up on MegaTune. I decided to rev it up slowly...no hickups or problems up to 4k. I decided it was time for a drive. I drove around the block, with no issues other than not being able to rev quickly enough to downshift (need to get a TPS). Next I got it up to 60 on the highway. I got to a friends house turned off the car, and tried to restart it. This time however it didn't start :(

I haven't used a timing light to dial in the timing in Megatune, so I assume that is the first thing I should do. Any other ideas as to why it would run fine, but be difficult to start? Also why is the fuel pump wire necessary? I would think that the stock ecu would turn it on. It is rather cold outside (I'm in Terre Haute, IN), if thats of any consequence.

Thanks for the help and putting up with my n00b questions.
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:40 PM   #2
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Welcome to the club.
No coolant reading will keep the MS from starting the motor correctly.
You need to set your trigger angle NOW. You could be wayy to advanced or retarded if it felt down on power. Ex. 10* either way.
You can tune Mapdot for accel enrich, the TPS isn't necessary, though it is nice.
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:09 AM   #3
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I just did my MSPNP install on a 90 1.6, without the MAF removed. Idle was rough at first start to I got the timing light out and set it as close as I can. The car ran fine when warmed up. I just went back out to try and see if it starts now that is cold again. The car started up, but the idle was going up and down over and over but when warmed up it seemed normal again. I didn't drive the car, cause there is too much damn snow again. Can anyone tell me if this idle issue is normal?? or what can I do to fix this. Right now the car is bone stock, just put the MS in so that its ready for the turbo install coming soon.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:18 AM   #4
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I wouldn't call it normal, but its definitely common. Means that some combination of your VE table, your AE settings, and your Warmup settings need tweaking.

I'm in the same boat you are right now. On a 55 morning it's like starting a carbeurated vehicle with no choke.
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:28 PM   #5
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Sooo, I figured out why the coolant temp wasn't reading. Like a retard, I had forgotten to run the wire for it from the harness to the DB37. Now, it tries to start every time and gets really close to doing so. Now instead of running smootly it jumps around. I'll start it and if I do nothing it stumbles and quits. If I try to give it a little gas, it will rev up but then the rpms drop. If I keep on the throttle it will rev back up before it dies and then repeat the cycle.

I still have not set the crank angle, and will do so tonight. From reading everyone elses posts, my first guess other than the crank angle be totally wrong is after start enrichment or the cold start stuff. My other guess is something with the temp. Both my manifold and coolant temps seem to be about 30-40 cooler than it actually is.

Any thoughts from you guys would be great.
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Old 02-04-2008, 04:54 PM   #6
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My settings seem really close, In the morning it started up but took long time cranking before it caught on. Got it started in the second try. The idle seems ok, but the car has to be warmed up for a few mins before I can drive it otherwise it seems to bog out. Is this normal? Does the cold start issue ever go away completely? Or is this the closeset to it?
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:04 PM   #7
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you need to reflash your firmware to get correct values or it'll never run right. what base map you are using?


is this a piggyback install? or standalone?
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:27 PM   #8
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I am using the MSPNP standalone. Using base map MS3093 and the car is bone stock with no mods on it yet. I wanted to make sure I have good working map before I add the turbo and the rest of the goods. What you think I should do?
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:14 PM   #9
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Mine is a piggybacked DIY MS. I believe I followed the direction in the DIY thread exactly. I changed the values in easytherm to those listed for 90-93 piggyback and flashed those. I'm still using the AIT sensor that is in the AFM, I suppose this could be part of the problem. For some reason my box 'o MS parts seems to have disapeared and that is where my GM AIT is...must find...

As for my map, I'm using Aussie Driver's fuel and spark maps off of DIYautotune.com

Zarish you are totally hijacking my thread...
I wouldn't care, but its hard to tell who the pro's are giving advice to.
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:24 PM   #10
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yert- If you haven't calibrated it via esaytherm for that IAT sensor then you won't get accurate readings. Take care of that first. Did you set your trigger angle yet?

Zarish- Talk to diyautotune about your MSPNP if you're having trouble. Their technical support and manuals support their product very well. Email: [email protected]
It is a fully tunable ECU. You can't expect it to be perfect out of the box. Tune your cranking settings if it doesn't start like it should.
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:54 PM   #11
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Sorry Yert for hijacking your thread, but I thought we were both at the same spot in installing our MS and didnt think I need 2 threads being the same. Well I will start my own thread.
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:58 PM   #12
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Its all good man, actually you might be right. Its starting to sound like we are having the same problem with it being cold and whatnot.

As for crank angle...I just got a hold of my friends timing light, and I'll dial that in later tonight after I finish this project.

I have to write a filesystem (FAT12) for my Operating Systems class. Its due by midnight. Hopefully I'll get it done so I can "play".
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:07 PM   #13
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Is crank angle same as setting the timing? I did that part last night, and got it really close. Its just a little off now on the starting in cold. It starts seems to idle ok but if you try to drive it bogs, clutch feels kinda weird and jumpy. It is ok once completely warmed up. I am not sure if I need to install the IAT sensor? I am using everything stock there are no mods. I have the sensor and everything for my turbo is sitting here, but just have had no time to install it. I will give updates on all the stuff I will putting into the car.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:26 PM   #14
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My MSPNP was like that until I tuned the VE table.

Order an Innovate LC-1 or another wideband if you don't already have one, then follow the MSnS-Extra VE tuning guide. MegaLogViewer makes the process pretty easy with a wideband. Apparently you can use logs without enrichments turned off but I've found that this makes the table too lean in spots.

Cheers
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:29 PM   #15
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looks like I will be ordering the AEM uego today. Will let you know how it goes then.

thanks Saboteur
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:03 AM   #16
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I finally got around to setting my crank angle last night. It still runs rough though. I also found that my old stock CLT isn't in the best shape. The plastic piece that the connector plugs into has cracked off from the metal threads. The sensor still reads, but I'm going to replace it to stave off any future problems. Still need to find my new AIT, if nothing else I'll go buy a new one. Temps are still reading about 20-40 degrees too low.

I can tell the car wants to run. I'm sooo close!!!
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:17 AM   #17
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What bias did you use? do you have R7 installed? I've updated that section of the write-up.

Use Rx7 defaults.

If piggyback with R7 installed: Use 1250 for CLT and 1450 for AIT for the bias.
If piggyback without R7: Use 3630 for CLT and 1450 for AIT for the bias.
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:38 PM   #18
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Good news...I finally found my GM AIT. Just finished drilling and taping the plastic intake piece. The AIT is right in front of the throttle body. I should get a chance to test it tonight after I get off work. I'll let ya'll know how it goes.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:28 PM   #19
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My intake and coolant temperatures sensors are now both fully functional and accurate. The car starts every time, but then immediately dies. This should indicate a after start or warm up issue. When I was trying all this last night it was really cold. Manifold temp was around 10 degrees F. I figured it simply wasn't getting enough fuel once it started so I cranked the enrichments up, but no change in engine behavior occurred.

I read the tuning section of the MegaManual last night and made some changes to my MSQ. Would you guys mind looking them over and letting me know if there are any glaring errors? Also what is a good starting point for after start and warmup enrichments?

Engine Constants:

Req Fuel 12.8
Injections per Cycle 2
Staging Alternating

After Start:

ASE Timer 200 Cycles
Mode Decay
Normal Map
-40 40%
-20 40%
0 40%
20 40%
40 40%
60 40%
80 40%

Warm Up:

-40 200%
-20 180%
0 160%
20 150%
40 135%
60 125%
80 113%
100 108%
130 102%
160 100%
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:33 PM   #20
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that aint going to work

try this:




what map are you starting from? doesnt sound like a good one.
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