Big cold start improvement - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 12-02-2007, 01:30 PM   #21
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After PRI I've got a couple more things I'll be up to as well. I can't turn up the boost any further without spark blowout right now. But that will be fixed soon. Very soon .

Last edited by FoundSoul; 12-02-2007 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:43 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
I don't know if either of us have the fastest Miata's in the country, let's start with Gwinnett county-- that's a fairly safe bet.

After PRI I've got a couple mroe things I'll be up to as well. I can't turn up the boost any further without spark blowout right now. But that will be fixed soon. Very soon .
I hope you're the one that outbid me by a dollar on ebay on a set of COPs.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:46 PM   #23
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I said "county"
At minimum, I want to have the most powerful Greddy known. So have to beat 268.7 from FM's site, though I'm sure that's a heavily "corrected" figure.
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Old 12-02-2007, 02:34 PM   #24
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I hope you're the one that outbid me by a dollar on ebay on a set of COPs.
That would be just like me, but no, I think I might have found something better. I'll know soon and when I prove it I'll share.

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I said "county"
At minimum, I want to have the most powerful Greddy known. So have to beat 268.7 from FM's site, though I'm sure that's a heavily "corrected" figure.
I caught that afterwards and edited my post... for a second there I thought maybe you were getting a little delusional. Not that it's not a great goal or anything .

What gears are you running the rear end now? I compared our graphs and though I start making my torque a good bit earlier and that's great on the street or road course, that won't matter much in a drag race when the revs never fall that low. My rear end is a 3.909, and when I compared yours at 4.30 (what it was the last time you were on my dyno), that could give you a slight advantage still in a drag race, if you can put the power down. And I've driven your car and wheelspin didn't seem to be a huge problem with the tires you had on it then. With the gearing difference, even with my slight torque advantage, you're multiplying it more and putting slightly more torque to the pavement. I don't have to shift quite as soon though, but that difference will be negligible. Let's just say Commerce will be fun in the spring .
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:39 PM   #25
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Just to make somethings clear for me. The cranking/prime table is the one that dictates how long the injectors fire for at that particular temperature. What do the ASE and the Warmup wizard do? Is ASE the time an engine is cranking, and warmup wizard when its already started?
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:52 PM   #26
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I'm running 4.10's with a tight RX7 clutch LSD now. Your gears and your nice 3" cat deleted exhuast are huge spool advantages for you.

Curious to see your new ignition solution. I was considering going with a pair of large coils bolted to the firewall (like what Tec does) but these COPs have been pretty damn good for me. No blowouts to 17.5 psi, which is the highest I've tried. .040" gap on stock ngk plugs.
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Old 12-02-2007, 06:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Just to make somethings clear for me. The cranking/prime table is the one that dictates how long the injectors fire for at that particular temperature. What do the ASE and the Warmup wizard do? Is ASE the time an engine is cranking, and warmup wizard when its already started?
Sam-

The best answer is 'read the manual', the MS1 Extra manual that is, as there's way to much on this subject in there to cover here. The fast answer is ASE and Warmup work together to add extra fuel both right after the car is first started (ASE) and anytime it's not up to temp yet (WUE) to help the car run at the proper AFRs until it's running and up to temp. Fuel doesn't atomize as well at cold temps so you have to spray a bunch more knowing part of it will not be atomized, but you spray enough that you get the AFRs you're looking for. You then phase this out as the car warms up as the fuel will properly atomize then.


Ben-

If you're running an .040 spark plug gap at 17.5psi with no spark blowout , you're ignition solution is just fine. What I'll be running should theoretically be able to boost 40+ psi, at more like .028-.030. Not that I have any plans of putting 40psi into this motor and sending the whole head, (in one piece), through the hood. I don't think it would just lift, it would lift off!
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Old 12-02-2007, 07:00 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
Sam-

The best answer is 'read the manual', the MS1 Extra manual that is, as there's way to much on this subject in there to cover here. The fast answer is ASE and Warmup work together to add extra fuel both right after the car is first started (ASE) and anytime it's not up to temp yet (WUE) to help the car run at the proper AFRs until it's running and up to temp. Fuel doesn't atomize as well at cold temps so you have to spray a bunch more knowing part of it will not be atomized, but you spray enough that you get the AFRs you're looking for. You then phase this out as the car warms up as the fuel will properly atomize then.

OH. That make sense now. So would it be wise to tune for 14.7 afr during these stages?

Im gonna go find the manual and get to reading otherwise.
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:30 AM   #29
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Eh... these cars tend to be happiest idling in the low to mid 13's, especially N/A. My car seems to be happy idling a little leaner now with the turbo, but I still keep it around 14:1 at idle at the leanest. You'll get occasional misfires at idle if you idle it too lean.
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:50 AM   #30
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I'm idling at 14:7 without any issues, no burps. Even with a blown head gasket: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxCO3EVoQtI
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:10 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
Eh... these cars tend to be happiest idling in the low to mid 13's, especially N/A. My car seems to be happy idling a little leaner now with the turbo, but I still keep it around 14:1 at idle at the leanest. You'll get occasional misfires at idle if you idle it too lean.
I shoulda been clearer in my question.

During Warmup Enrichment, should the car be tuned to idle lean, meaning as lean as it should idle during regular running when the WUE phase has ended? Or even simpler, are there two idle targets I should be aiming for, one for when the engine is cold and one for when its hot?

My car doesn't idle with anything over 13.1. It starts to sputter and die if its anything leaner.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:18 AM   #32
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Wow, I suddenly feel so special that my car idles great, hovering between 14.5-15.0:1, even during WUA!

Jim
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:19 AM   #33
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Wow, I suddenly feel so special that my car idles great, hovering between 14.5-15.0:1, even during WUA!

Jim
So what's your special trick.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:25 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by cjernigan View Post
So what's your special trick.
Probably adjusted the throttle screw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megamanual
To set the VE table entries near idle, you should try to achieve the lowest MAP (in kPa) that you possibly can, at your chosen idle speed. This will give the highest idle vacuum and the most efficient idle. Don't try to get to a target idle mixture (stoichiometric, or some other number), instead adjust the VE table entries around your idle rpm and kPa to achieve the lowest MAP reading as seen in MegaTune. As you work to lower the MAP, the rpm will likely rise, and you'll have to reset the throttle stop to lower the rpm to your desired idle speed. When you have it set so that either raising or lowering the VE table entries increases the MAP, then you have the best idle mixture for your engine (it will require the smallest throttle opening).
I still dont get how adjusting the VE table will lower map.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:27 AM   #35
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Honestly, I dont know. I used to have the random misfiring problem and James (jsmcortina) recommended that I rewired my injectors from what I originally had to something else (IIRC from 1+3&2+4 to 1+4&2+3?) and that helped immensly. I'm also running a modified version of 029v that resyncs the wheel when I press Q, it seems to work a lot better for me for some weird reason.

Jim
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:29 AM   #36
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Ok guys, I'm new with MS and still learning (I installed it last week)
I have the MS on my 1.6 without AFM. Motor is stock, N/A and I'm waiting for my turbo from BEGI. In the mean time I want to make the motor run good without the turbo.
Yesterday I changed the MAP time period to 12 seconds and also got into the Warmup wizard and cranked the fuel enrichments up as the originator of this tread showed in his tables. The car started much better, it only took one long crank to start (BUT IT WAS 50 degrees outside).
This morning it was 26 degrees and it took a long time to start, it almost didnt start. After I shut it off, I put it in contact and it backfired, wtf!!. So I decided that maybe its too rich and I went to Cranking PWs and I lowered then by 1ms less each one. Still hard to start
Any tips. I'm trying to learn this plz dont flame.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:31 AM   #37
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too much fuel, lower the PWs.

backfire = unburned fuel igniting.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:35 AM   #38
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Interesting that changing your injector batching helped so much. I've run both ways and saw no difference. That's good you got your random misfire fixed up.
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Since it's been cold, I've had a little tougher time with cold starts. Now, part of that was due to the fact that the lower temperature enrichments were not tuned, but the values were assumed as it wasn't cold enough to actually hit those cells, and not until today have I tried to actually tune them. My main problem was that each time I would cold start the car, it would run for only a few seconds then stall. I would start the car again, it would run for a few seconds, then act like it wanted to stall for a few seconds, but it would typically clear up and then go to cold start high idle.

Inspired by my "new" tuning laptop from DropTopDrifter, I decided that today is the day to clear up my cold start issue. Here's the fix:
In MegaTune, go to Crank/Warmup and open ASE Settings. Make sure the ASE Mode is Fixed Then Decay, MAP Mode During ASE is set to Fixed MAP, and set the Time Period to 15 seconds. My previous setting for Time Period was only 5 seconds, so the problem I was having was that when the Fixed MAP period was ending, the actual MAP was not stable enough to appropriately fuel the motor, and my car was going lean and stalling out. Now that I have MAP locked for 15 seconds after start, I am getting good, stable cold starts.

As it gets colder, I'll get my settings locked in better. But for your benefit, here's what I'm running for now:
I'll haver to work on my enrichments, The car stalled once at 11 degrees, using a fixed Map of 15 Seconds.

Also my car likes to idle ~13.1:1 or so..
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:59 PM   #40
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Man I'm glad I live here and not there with you. It's 50, here at noon, and still climbing.
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