DIYPNP on a 99 - Page 5 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-30-2009, 07:21 PM   #81
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I didn't build a fancy schmitt trigger like I see you guys doing. The uS worked standalone just fine w/o it. Just had to install a couple pulldowns.

I tried to run parallel by just removing the pulldowns and hooking up the wires. I got no tach signal from the MS. I reinstalled the pulldowns and the MS worked *beautifully* in sequential. The difference was larger than I anticipated. But the stock computer threw cam and crank codes and didn't drive the tach.

I had the 60-2 wheel laying around anyway, so I installed it.

I have (4) LS2 truck coils on the car. They have a long dwell period compared to the toyo cops, but are also much hotter. Because I have the stock computer to take care of everything non performance related, I don't really need the 2 outputs for anything else.

I think the best place to go from here is to get a magnetic CAS from an NA. There's a fella on m.net who modified one to replicate the NB cam sensor so he could put on regular adjustable cam gears. I think I'll follow in his footsteps, and I can use one ring for the stock computer and the other ring for the MS and get sequential back.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:29 PM   #82
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Ben,
Find out (Matt?) if the Ms-II will support a 60-1 with a cam wheel, when the cam wheel provides the singlet/doublet that the miata uses stock.
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Old 11-01-2009, 03:04 PM   #83
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Installation complete. So far, so good, as far as I can tell. My patch harness I made ended up being way too long, so I had to tuck it up into the dash. Oh well. Factory pcm is back in its home and the DIYPNP is zip tied to the bottom of the steering column.

Of course my LC1 decided to stop working.
I can communicate with it in LM Programmer, but not in Log Works. It does not communicate with the XD-16 gauge.
It has a good power source (same as XD) and a good ground source (same as XD, with the DIYPNP to the cyl head).

Car does go up and down the street under its own power. Because I did some fuel table tuning before, I felt comfortable making a little bit of boost to 3-4k rpm.

No CEL so far, but I expect that w/o EGO correction, one will eventually come. System too rich I bet.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:51 PM   #84
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Ben ,

I am interestd in this setup. I may be geting a 01. I also would like it to pass smog. Which we all know is insane in CA. I am looking to go piggyback as well. It looks like your set up work would work with the 01+ cars as well. What are your thoughts on this? Also do you have any pictures of the pnp internals as it is at this time? any sugestions?

Have a graet day,
Jared
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:14 PM   #85
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No idea on emissions for my 99, let alone your 01. I suspect that you will need to simulate o2 signals like Y8s. I may need to as well, don't know yet. I am hoping I can get my tune close enough to stoich and have the MS respond in closed loop similar to how the stock computer does.

I drove the car about 10 miles today and popped 2 o2 related codes. System too rich and o2 control. Not suprising at all, since I am running on an untuned fuel table and have no EGO feedback (LC1 died).
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:47 PM   #86
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Quote:
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Ben,
Find out (Matt?) if the Ms-II will support a 60-1 with a cam wheel, when the cam wheel provides the singlet/doublet that the miata uses stock.
Not with the stock cam wheel - you could add a 1 tooth wheel somewhere and make that work though.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:02 PM   #87
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Considering your test is only once every other year, just swap computers for the test. You'll need it in parallel to keep it happy, but when it comes to the sniffer, just switch fuel and spark over. And probably a fresh cat for every test. :-)
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:49 PM   #88
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Quote:
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The seq card uses outputs PT6 and PT7 for injector drivers 3 and 4. I was previously using these outputs for VICS and cooling fan.
You sure about that? According to Jean's website, the sequential injection code uses PT2 and PT4. The way I understand it, these are new outputs that are created with by soldering a couple of jumpers on the MS2 cpu. So there would be no need to give up existing IO's.

Last edited by WestfieldMX5; 11-03-2009 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 04:31 PM   #89
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Not with the stock cam wheel - you could add a 1 tooth wheel somewhere and make that work though.
Yes, that's what I will be doing.

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Considering your test is only once every other year, just swap computers for the test. You'll need it in parallel to keep it happy, but when it comes to the sniffer, just switch fuel and spark over. And probably a fresh cat for every test. :-)
No tailpipe test here. They only plug into the obd port. Any pending or triggered code = fail. I can have up to 2 monitor not readies and pass.
The point of the excersize was to pass emissions as is. If I'm going to switch computers, then I just wasted a bunch of time. <edit> oh, and it's yearly.

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You sure about that? According to Jean's website, the sequential injection code uses PT2 and PT4. The way I understand it, these are new outputs that are created with by soldering a couple of jumpers on the MS2 cpu. So there would be no need to give up existing IO's.
The uS is a little bit different than a MS 3.0. Yes, I'm sure.

Last edited by Ben; 11-03-2009 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 04:51 PM   #90
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ah yes I didn't realise the DIYPNP was different. I now see it only has PT6 and PY7 on the 10pin header, so that explains why you loose 2 outputs by going full seq on it.
A valid reason to stick with the V3.0 board I guess .
Thinking more and more to start building a new one now.
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Old 11-03-2009, 05:25 PM   #91
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ah yes I didn't realise the DIYPNP was different. I now see it only has PT6 and PY7 on the 10pin header, so that explains why you loose 2 outputs by going full seq on it.
A valid reason to stick with the V3.0 board I guess .
Thinking more and more to start building a new one now.
The total number of outputs you can get to is actually the same on a DIYPNP and a V3.0, however, some of the outputs are easier to get to on a DIYPNP. The ports actually being used are different, however. If you're using sequential and 4 cylinder COP at the same time, on a V3.0, you would still have PT6 and PT7 (stepper) ports free. On a DIYPNP, the ports you'd have available are PM3 (D14 / Tach Out) and PA0 (JS11 on a V3.0) You just end up with different things available.

Also, the module, and by extension, the DIYPNP, has fewer I/O pins tied up or going to nowhere. On a V3.0, the only way to access the pins used for sequential injection are by soldering on the SMD parts on the daughter card. Same goes for the table switching pin and PB4 (although the current code doesn't use this as a separate output). On the module, these are all brought out on the header.
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Old 11-03-2009, 05:34 PM   #92
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Ben only ran short on outputs due to running sequential fuel (4 outputs), sequential spark (4 outputs), and then needing a tach output, VICS output, and fan output. That's one too many. He still has available inputs, but he's one output short. Drop either the sequential fuel, or the sequential spark, and your gravy.

Really, if you want all of those outputs at the same time you could probably pull it off. Build a tach driver circuit that doesn't drive the tach from an output but from the ignition signals out instead, and you relieve the need for the CPU to control the tach and now it can do everything else.
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Old 11-03-2009, 06:10 PM   #93
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I am actually good with outputs. My problem was I did not do a good job of planning ahead. 45 seconds with a warm soldering iron, and all was resolved.

I am so far pretty happy with the way things have turned out. I hope I get my repaired LC1 back from Innovate in a reasonably timely manner. It's not getting any warmer.
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:25 PM   #94
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It sounds like a nice set up. If your coils are slow, I guess you are stuck there, though I don't know if it's worth it. How much hotter IS it, the toyos are so damned good I can't see wanting better, maybe I'm wrong there.

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No tailpipe test here. They only plug into the obd port. Any pending or triggered code = fail. I can have up to 2 monitor not readies and pass.
The point of the excersize was to pass emissions as is. If I'm going to switch computers, then I just wasted a bunch of time. <edit> oh, and it's yearly.
Ah, I was talking to the other guy, from Cali. Your set up seems pretty good for your needs.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:58 PM   #95
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Ben, I saw that you installed that huge 10,000F cap there. Any significant benefits? Would a 1,000F cap do?
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:13 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
Considering your test is only once every other year, just swap computers for the test. You'll need it in parallel to keep it happy, but when it comes to the sniffer, just switch fuel and spark over. And probably a fresh cat for every test. :-)
I had thought about the however I would be installing a turbo later down the line. I am looking to build the car to NASA's TTC class. However it will need to be a DD. I would be swapping in an exhaust for the test and back out after.

Have a great day,
Jared
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:30 AM   #97
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The LS2 truck coils are definitely hotter than the toyo coils, but if I needed the two outputs to do other things instead of seq spark, then I probably wouldn't feel too bad about using Toyo coils in wasted spark.

A cap can't be a bad idea. I saw that DIY installs one inside the MSPNP. It's just a filter on the power source, and I just used what I had laying around. There's a lot of potential to dirty up the +12V between the sensors, the computers, the wideband, etc. They all share a common power supply. You can't see, but on the bottom side, I also supplemented the cap's wiring to the power and ground planes on the bottom side of the board.
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Old 11-05-2009, 04:00 PM   #98
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I wonder how much capacitance there is on the 5V line, too?

Jared:
So? If you have stock injectors, the OEM computer can run the smog test just fine. Lots of kids, cheaping out, run the stock computer with a turbo and low boost. I have, in emergencies when my old piggyback broke.

Go ahead and flip the switch at the test facility, you can even drive over on it if you unhook the wastegate and drive easy - I've done this plenty of times, even running "bad" gas. Pass your test, flip the switch and the injectors and drive home. :-)
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Old 11-05-2009, 04:11 PM   #99
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abe, do you recommend a cap on the 5V reference as well? I went to fry's, and the only big cap they have is a 1000F, rated at 16V, 35V, or 50V.
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Old 11-05-2009, 04:22 PM   #100
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I'd only put one there if you're having problems, and it wouldn't need to be as big.

On the 12v, we have a 3300uf cap on the MSPNPs, which is really bigger than needed. Without the cap the stock electrical system (12v) gets somewhat noisy when the engine is under load. With about half that value smooths out the 12v pretty nicely, now having a nice nearly flat 12v (or 13.2 or whatever, bottom line is it stopped it from looking like a sine wave anymore) under load. The 3300uf made it pretty much perfectly flat, just a slight improvement over the smaller value. The cap was cheap, so I used the bigger one, done deal.

I discovered this a couple years ago when troublehooting the occasional misfire issue we used to see. Turns out I solved that with a much smaller cap on the 2nd input to filter the 2nd trigger, and noise on that signal had been the root cause of that. This cap on the 12v really is not required at all, but doesn't hurt, may help in some cases, so we left it in. BTW, before someone asks, there is already filtering on the DIYPNP's 2nd trigger, this little cap shouldn't be needed.
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