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Old 01-17-2011, 05:51 AM   #1
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Default DIYPNP on an NB 00, no rpms

Hello guys,

I'm writting this not for me (I have an NA with a fully working MS2 built by myself, thanks mt.net for this), but for a french friend who does not speak english very well.

He bought CRAIGO's unit, it's an enhanced DIYPNP built by Reverent in the Group By, and it was successfully working in his NB.

Now my friend installed it, and he is still not able to start the car, when the starter is working there is no RPM in Tunerstudio, so I assume that there is a probleme with the cam signal. TPS, IAT and CLT are working in TS so it's not a communication issue.

The big point is that his car is an NB 1.6L (yeah the 110hp motor you never had in the US) with a NB 1.8L motor in it.
It have the NB 1.6L wiring harness, and he's not sure which coil pack he had (1.6 or 1.8 they are not the same).

I have checked with the part numbers and Cam Angle sensor and cranckshaft angle sensor are the same between 1.6 and 1.8.
From what i'm seeing only the coil pack are different, but if the MS does not see RPM it's a cam signal issue, not a coil issue ?

Before the DIYPNP the car was running fine with a piggyback EMB and an 1.6L ECU.

I suspect a difference between the wiring harness between NB 1.6 and 1.8 but I am unable to find the information.

Does someone can help me ?

Thanks
Joel
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Old 01-17-2011, 06:22 AM   #2
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1.6l NB and 1.8l NB have the same wiring & schematics (apart from 1 more cable for the VICS on the 1.8l) - so there isn't your problem.

The problem indeed is somethings with the CAS or CAM signal if you don't get RPM reading in Tuner Studio. Try to take a diagnostic log in Tuner Studio.

Greets from Germany
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:54 AM   #3
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It should work immediately. All 99-00 1.6/1.8 are exactly the same wiring wise, the only difference being that the 1.6 doesn't have VICS.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:16 AM   #4
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Make sure that the piggyback EMS was completely and cleanly removed. The DIYPNP will likely not work with a piggyback in place, and absolutely will not work if the vehicle wiring wasn't put back to as close to stock condition as possible.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:11 AM   #5
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Thanks guys, i've asked my friend to send me datalogs and diagnostics logs.

He says he removed everything from the EMB harness, but maybe he damaged the OEM wiring or connector while removing it.
The car was working when it entered the garage with the EMB so if something is wrong on the car it must be during piggyback removal.

This is a picture he sent me, as I can see there the piggyback harness had been correctly removed

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Old 01-17-2011, 02:49 PM   #6
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Here is the datalog he sent me :


As we can see, there is no RPM, so no PW neither spark

And here is the log http://joel.da.costa.free.fr/TutosMx...ing%20logs.msl

I've asked my friend to send me a diagnostic log in TS.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:11 PM   #7
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And here is the diagnostic log :

http://joel.da.costa.free.fr/TutosMx...7_19.56.28.csv



I don't know if it's correct but it is'nt the toothed wheel signal from the crank ?

Is it OK ?
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:02 PM   #8
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You have no CKP signal (crank angle).

Your log should look closer to this:


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Old 01-17-2011, 09:05 PM   #9
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There is no signal from the crank. (Blue line)
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:28 AM   #10
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Thanks !

Now we know where to search, but we still have to search why it was working with the EMB and why know it's missing the Crank signal...
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:56 AM   #11
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With the EMB, didn't you have to cut a CAS signal and then send it back out the EMB to "alter" the signal? It's possible that wire is still severed.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
With the EMB, didn't you have to cut a CAS signal and then send it back out the EMB to "alter" the signal? It's possible that wire is still severed.
That happens with the coil(s) signal. The EMB doesn't interface with the CKP/CMP sensors at all.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:49 AM   #13
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Maybe I'm thinkin' Bipes.
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Old 01-18-2011, 11:02 AM   #14
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It would still be a good idea to test the wire for continuity, all the way from the pin on the DIYPNP OPTO- pin to the signal out terminal on the CKP sensor. The 3 wires on the CKP sensor are power, ground, and signal out (not in that particular order).
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Old 01-18-2011, 11:09 AM   #15
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Yes my friend already tested the Cam angle sensor wiring, but not the Crank.

Another test could be to re-install the OEM ECU and the EMB, if it's not starting my friend fucked up something during un-install, if it's working maybe the MS had been damaged during shipment (a broken wire inside maybe).
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:45 PM   #16
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Well, bad news, my friend re-installed the OEM ECU (without the greedy) and tried to fire the car and it started immediatly, it idles very ugly but it does not have anymore lambda nor CLT or AFM signal, but it runs.

The OEM ECU cannot be able to start the car without the CKP signal ?
So it have to be the MS which have a problem ?

I don't know very well the DIY board but I think we can try to test the continuity from the CKP pin in the ecu connector to the OPTO- pin in the board like Ben said.

Is there another test that we can do ?

Here is some pictures of the board he sent me :


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Old 01-18-2011, 03:15 PM   #17
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My friends tested the following :

Between the two green arrows there is continuity



But there is no continuity to the opto- pin (resistor circled in green)


But there is continuity with the OPTO GND where there is the green arrow...
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:20 PM   #18
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Try having a look at the module hardware schematic:

http://www.microsquirtmodule.com/mod_hardware.htm

Try powering up the ECU on the bench and check the voltage at the output of U4 or at R19. The signal should go from 5 volts when the Opto GND jumper is off, to 0 volts when you connect the Opto GND jumper (the two pins with the green arrow on your last pic). Let me know what you find.
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeldc13 View Post
My friends tested the following :

Between the two green arrows there is continuity



But there is no continuity to the opto- pin (resistor circled in green)


But there is continuity with the OPTO GND where there is the green arrow...
This is normal. There should be continuity between OP- and OPTO GND, and there should be continuity between OP+ and the left side of the "OPTO+" resistor, and ~470Ohms between OP+ and the right side of the "OPTO+" resistor.

You can always send the unit back to me for inspection and repair. Repair is free unless there is unrepairable damage to the Microsquirt module (white board), and I will only charge you shipping back to France. Remember, I am in Greece.
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
This is normal. There should be continuity between OP- and OPTO GND, and there should be continuity between OP+ and the left side of the "OPTO+" resistor, and ~470Ohms between OP+ and the right side of the "OPTO+" resistor.
He tested that and it's ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
You can always send the unit back to me for inspection and repair. Repair is free unless there is unrepairable damage to the Microsquirt module (white board), and I will only charge you shipping back to France. Remember, I am in Greece.
Thanks Dimitris, my friend is going to try to test his crank sensor or switch them (he may have a spare one) this week. I come back to you when I know what he wants to do.
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