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Old 08-14-2011, 03:20 PM   #1
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Default DIYPNP no start

After battling some configuration errors it's connected and synced properly. Did all the initial calibrations and now I'm on to setting the base timing. Problem now is I can't get it to start.

I did however forget to disconnect the MS after test fitting a mounting point and cranked the motor to relieve fuel pressure without pulling the ST SIGN fuse. After reading and info from Brain I found out this can damage a transistor which can affect the MS handling the fuel relay. Cause of my problem? How can I tell if the transistor is junked?

Otherwise what can I start checking to make this heap start?
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Old 08-14-2011, 07:17 PM   #2
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You can try jumping FP and GND in the diagnostic box on the driver side. That is what was keeping mine from starting. I have MsPnp.
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:04 PM   #3
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You sir are a scholar and a sage. Didn't think of trying that since Brain said I didn't have to, which makes me think maybe I did screw up my MS?. New problem, it starts and the RPMs just climb so i have to cut it.


edit: I just let it climb, comes back down from ~4k sticks around 2-3k, occasional misfire. Won't come back down. Wat do.

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Old 08-14-2011, 09:13 PM   #4
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(zack morris's phone)

Sounds like a huge vacuum leak.

Still confused how the fuel pump primes but wont stay on without the jumper..
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
(zack morris's phone)

Sounds like a huge vacuum leak.

Still confused how the fuel pump primes but wont stay on without the jumper..
I remembered I adjusted the idle screw at the TB a while back when my IACV was acting up so I messed with that a bit. It may have knocked down the idle about 400 or so rpm. Hard to tell, I was only able to adjust it once and had to stop for fear of my neighbors coming after me. 8pm on a sunday on my quiet street + open downpipe = nope.

Also stumped about the fuel pump issue. It clearly clicks on with the ignition
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:29 PM   #6
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Lol, totally understand the loud exhaust. I caught my neighbor giving me the evil eye out their window yesterday while i was messing with my idle. They are less than 300ft from my garage and the car exhaust is pointed at them.

My idle was really high when I started it for the first time, I'm kinda new to all this also. I got mine down by
1. sync CAS with the ms
2. follow hornet's instruction for setting idle.

These steps helped me get down to the 900 range. I also had to lower the cold temp idle speed.

You can hear the pump come on with the ignition, or you here the relay? I never heard the pump until I jumped it. I jus routed a wire into the cabin with a toggle. Definitely not my choice but works for now.
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seraph View Post
Lol, totally understand the loud exhaust. I caught my neighbor giving me the evil eye out their window yesterday while i was messing with my idle. They are less than 300ft from my garage and the car exhaust is pointed at them.

My idle was really high when I started it for the first time, I'm kinda new to all this also. I got mine down by
1. sync CAS with the ms
2. follow hornet's instruction for setting idle.

These steps helped me get down to the 900 range. I also had to lower the cold temp idle speed.

You can hear the pump come on with the ignition, or you here the relay? I never heard the pump until I jumped it. I jus routed a wire into the cabin with a toggle. Definitely not my choice but works for now.
Thank, I'll just have to try that then.

And the switch, do you just flip it on to start and flip off once running? If so I guess I'll have to do that for now. Might pass as a ghetto immobilizer until I come up with a more eloquent solution.
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:23 AM   #8
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The switch is just a signal disruptor. I only hooked into the fuel line (light green) wire going into the diagnostic box and left the jumper in the box. the switch stays on all the time to run the FP and make sure you put it somewhere it won't get bumped or shut off by accident.

It's the ghetto way but it works. I just bought a toggle switch with safety cover and reversed the direction. now closed is FP on, and open with switch up is FP off.
[IMG][/IMG]

you can see the switch with red cover is up and open so the FP is off in this pic.
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:28 AM   #9
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hornet's instructions won't help him very much on a diypnp.

I've never had a MS that increased the idle speed in such a way unless there was a huge vacuum leak, like the pcv or brake boost lines were left unplugged.


If st_sign fuse is pulled, and the F/P GND jumper is removed, and you hear the fuel pump prime with key on, the MS is doing its job and controlling the pump.

If you have a 90-93, left the st_sign fuse in, and the f/p jumper is removed, you will hear the FP prime, but the MS is no longer controlling the relay...the driver has been damaged.


I don't like this switch, you should have just repaired your MSPNP unit after you failed to remove your st_sign fuse and damaged the dirver that activated the pump within the MSPNP unit.
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
hornet's instructions won't help him
I don't like this switch, you should have just repaired your MSPNP unit after you failed to remove your st_sign fuse and damaged the dirver that activated the pump within the MSPNP unit.
Well there is your answer. Does running it this way pose any real threat to the system in some other fashion?

I bought mine used, followed the installation instructions, and removed the fuse plus ignitor before the install. so it must have been done by the previous owner.

The best thing is obviously to repair my MS but I can't solder. So the easiest solution to get me running without forking out more cash was the switch without the ST_SGN fuse.

Since you were able to build it yourself you should be able to do it the right way and repair it.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:04 AM   #11
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Running it that way is fine, just not recommended. If you get in an accident, you must remember to turn off your ignition or flip the switch.

the repair is very cheap and very simple.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Running it that way is fine, just not recommended. If you get in an accident, you must remember to turn off your ignition or flip the switch.

the repair is very cheap and very simple.
I did think of the accident situation which is the main thought behind the switch. I do want to run it correctly and have the unit repaired, but I need the car running and once I get some down time I'll have it repaired the right way.
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:24 AM   #13
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Just to be clear, for now would it be acceptable to keep the jumper in the diagnostics box or should I do this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack
Open your DIYPNP by removing the 4 screws on the db15 side. Slide out the main board.

Remove the two wires going to the High Side Driver Circuit (from FP to IN and from OUT to 1C)

Solder a wire from FP to 2O.

On your AFM connector jump pins 2 and 7.

done, never worry about the ST-SIGN fuse ever again.
Because I'd just like to ultimately do this when I get back to Buffalo:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack
Alternatively:

Buy a TIP125 (not at radio shack sorry)

Open your DIYPNP by removing the 4 screws on the db15 side. Slide out the main board.

Remove the TIP125 from the High Side Driver Circuit

Replace.

done.
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:11 PM   #14
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So I got a steady 3k idle going, just having issues getting my damn timing light to work.

Also, is it normal for the mani to be gloing red idling at 3k?
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:42 PM   #15
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no. im sure the timing is WAY off.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:05 PM   #16
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somethin aint right, I'm reading ~28 degrees ignition advance timing at idle. This is after I synced timing to 10 degs and put it back to use map. Mani is no longer glowing red at least.

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Old 08-15-2011, 06:31 PM   #17
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doesnt sound synced.

map loaded should be ~15* at idle, but at 3K i can see 28*
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:07 PM   #18
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Well I managed to tinker with the idle screw a bit and got a solid 2.5k idle. Took it for a spin around the neighborhood and it drives at least. Just need to get this idle down somehow. Hopefully my timing starts looking normal once the idle comes down.
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Old 08-16-2011, 02:47 PM   #19
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Update:

Car won't stay alive now. Starts up, tries to idle at 1k for a split second then dies. I can't even set my idle now. So that's what I'm dealing with at the moment. Currently searching old threads for a fix for this, but if anyone has any input feel free to contribute.
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Old 08-16-2011, 02:50 PM   #20
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that's more than likely lack of fuel. try to add say 10 points throughout the entire VE table, see how it likes that.
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