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Old 07-14-2009, 01:23 PM   #1
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Default Do I have knock?!

Right I have a TurboXS knocklite fitted to my car. Its using a bosch knock sensor fitted to the engine mount bolt on the inlet side of the car.

I was using a modified version of the stock "with AFM 1990" PNP map, as everyone says its pretty safe. Well my knocklite flashes up just after 5k at wot. So I do some rejiggering of my timing etc, and its still there. I dont seem to be able to get it to go away. Also, I always lift when it flashes (it does this everytime at the same rpm) but of course the light is an indication that a kncok event has ALREADY occurred. I must have done this 20 times now while trying to tune it out, and the car hasnt changed in its running etc.

My question is, basically, looking at my maps below, and my log (the log shows a 3rd gear pull with me lifting at the point of the flash), do you think this is false knock?

I understand that every car is different and the only way to be 100% is to build some of mr.slows (richy) det cans or go on a dyno, but Id just like some educated feedback. Do you think my knock sensor is in a good place etc?

Car is: 1990 BBR, T25, 6psi, 340cc Inj, FMIC, UK 99 Ron fuel




nice nice 2.msq
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Do I have knock?!-fuel-map.jpg   Do I have knock?!-spark-map.jpg   Do I have knock?!-1.jpg  
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:33 PM   #2
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Your timing looks fine and you're barely hitting 7 psi. Unless your base timing is off you shouldn't get knock.

I've never had a knocklight, but most knock sensors need to be calibrated. Regular engine racket at 5K rpm may be setting an oversensitive calibration off.
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:36 PM   #3
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Wire the waste-gate open, so that you are making no boost, and run it again. Your knock sensor might be too sensitive, and picking up other internal noises instead of detonation.
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:47 PM   #4
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you need det cans. Google will help you make them. You could have knock, or your sensor needs calibration. There's only one way to tell and thats to make det-cans. You will look stupid, people will make fun of you, but your tune will be safe and it might get a woman to talk to you. Emphasis on "might" because you're probably dealing with some homosexual thoughts right now and scared to act on them. I ask if something feels so good, why can't it be right?

Here's a shot of my spark table, just because I can't help but talk ****:
http://i43.tinypic.com/14vtvrk.jpg
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:50 PM   #5
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Your spark table is still ******* insane Hustler.

I have done all the googling and just need to get my butt to the hardware store to build them. OP, it's not hard, and has to be worth it to be sure of your timing table.
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:57 PM   #6
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After playing with electronic det cans, and a Knocksense, and manual det cans, the manual cans are the only ones worth using. I didn't even reinstall my Knocksense when I rebuilt my car.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:17 PM   #7
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Are manual det cans JUST a stethescope?

I do intend to build some det cans (electrical variety) in the near future.

My base timing is spot on etc.

Does my timing look like it would induce high EGTs? Coming from an EMB, im not actually sure what an ACTUAL timing map should really look like, seeing as your just adding and taking from stock on emb.

The knocklite is calibrated by setting 3 noise points, idle, half revs and near redline, which I have done.

Where is the stock mounting place for the mk2 knock sensor?

Thanks
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:18 PM   #8
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lol.



OP of that thread (in picture) isn't sure why they're called "Det cans" because, and I quote "Theres nothing can like about them." Its an industry term in audio world, large earphones similar to the ear protectors he used are typically called "Cans." I lol'd at the end result, but its not a terrible idea. You can defiantly hear the difference between valve train noise and spark knock with something like that, even if you have NO exhaust.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:23 PM   #9
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lol.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:27 PM   #10
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Don't knock it 'til you try it.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMRider_10 View Post
Are manual det cans JUST a stethescope?
no, google like I told you, ask a more informed question, and I might help you if I feel so inclined to continue to jack-off at work all day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMRider_10 View Post
I do intend to build some det cans (electrical variety) in the near future.
strike 1: you didn't listen to Savington
strike 2: you should have already built them, rather than make this thread
strike 3: you're a felcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMRider_10 View Post
My base timing is spot on etc.
fantastic!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMRider_10 View Post
Does my timing look like it would induce high EGTs?
yes.
Look at my spark table...I have more advance at 15psi than you do at 100kpa, lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMRider_10 View Post
The knocklite is calibrated by setting 3 noise points, idle, half revs and near redline, which I have done.
how do you calibrate if you don't know if its knocking or not? Hint: I've heard slight detonation with my det cans that sophisticated equipment (wolf) didn't pick up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMRider_10 View Post
Where is the stock mounting place for the mk2 knock sensor?
Up your ***, motherfuck.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:55 PM   #12
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Lets take a little more time to constructively belittle you in front of an audience:
Your VE table looks like absolute ****. Seriously, driving this car must be like getting horn-fucked by a rhinoceros. You pretty much have no business "tuning" your own car. However, there's hope, and if you listen to the brain-trust here, you may get laid for the first time in your life and get your car tuned.

Look at my dyno thread because I posted lots of info that many people use to tune. Make your VE table linear on the x and y axis (unless the dyno tells you otherwise, like mine did in 2 cells out of 144); it will drive better and not 'splode. Also, look at the pretty color histogram on my spark table...that general 2-hump shape is par for the course on all cars.

Show us your target AFR table.
Show us a 4th gear pull datalog.
If you're a flamboyant gay, just act like a man.
Most importantly, tune out detonation on the street. Look at a few spark tables and make yours similar and use the det cans to rule out detonation. If you're not on a dyno, you can't really tune spark.

xoxo
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:03 PM   #13
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Ok I understand I dont have over 10,000 posts like you etc....for this I apologise.

Explain to me why my VE table is a load of ****? Ive been tuning the car for maybe a week, my AFRs are solid from 1500rpm all the way to redline at WOT, in between maybe not but its getting there. What are the fundamental things wrong with it? Im trying to learn here.

I just read through your dyno thread, very helpful, thankyou.

High EGTs....id say so. On the way to work tonight, I took my car past the 5k knock point for the first time in ages, and my LC1 threw a fit, I assume due to high EGTs as AFR was fine.

When you say AFR targets, do you mean the targets I have in MLV when using VE analyser?

Ill do a solid 4th gear pull in the morning and post it up.

Thanks for the help so far.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Lets take a little more time to constructively belittle you in front of an audience:
Your VE table looks like absolute ****. Seriously, driving this car must be like getting horn-fucked by a rhinoceros. You pretty much have no business "tuning" your own car. However, there's hope, and if you listen to the brain-trust here, you may get laid for the first time in your life and get your car tuned.

Look at my dyno thread because I posted lots of info that many people use to tune. Make your VE table linear on the x and y axis (unless the dyno tells you otherwise, like mine did in 2 cells out of 144); it will drive better and not 'splode. Also, look at the pretty color histogram on my spark table...that general 2-hump shape is par for the course on all cars.

Show us your target AFR table.
Show us a 4th gear pull datalog.
If you're a flamboyant gay, just act like a man.
Most importantly, tune out detonation on the street. Look at a few spark tables and make yours similar and use the det cans to rule out detonation. If you're not on a dyno, you can't really tune spark.

xoxo
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMRider_10 View Post
Ok I understand I dont have over 10,000 posts like you etc....for this I apologise.

Explain to me why my VE table is a load of ****? Ive been tuning the car for maybe a week, my AFRs are solid from 1500rpm all the way to redline at WOT, in between maybe not but its getting there. What are the fundamental things wrong with it? Im trying to learn here.

I just read through your dyno thread, very helpful, thankyou.

High EGTs....id say so. On the way to work tonight, I took my car past the 5k knock point for the first time in ages, and my LC1 threw a fit, I assume due to high EGTs as AFR was fine.

When you say AFR targets, do you mean the targets I have in MLV when using VE analyser?

Ill do a solid 4th gear pull in the morning and post it up.

Thanks for the help so far.


Don't worry about the locals, just laugh.

You've got the right attitude and are on the right path.

I would definitely build det cans and work on advancing your timing a little, but if your EGTs are high enough to **** of the LC-1 I have to wonder how close your sensor is to the turbine.
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:07 AM   #16
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Thanks.

Tbh, my timing is like that at the minute as I was trying to stop my apparent knock, I didnt actually think it was correct.

I assume that it was EGTs causing it. My LC1 has been faultless since day 1 (over 18 months) and since changing the timing to that above ^^^ Ive not been over 5.5k as Ive been getting "knock" so tonight I thought **** it, im gonna do a pull to redline. Did so, and then LC1 LED caught my eye as it was flashing and the gauge was stuck on stoich. I thought I would have fried the sensor if EGTs were that high, but I turned the car off and on and its fine now?

Anyways, Ill get a solid 4th gear pull to redline and post that later.

I just remembered, my .msq was in the first post ^^^

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/att...ice-nice-2.msq
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMRider_10 View Post
Thanks.



I assume that it was EGTs causing it. My LC1 has been faultless since day 1 (over 18 months)
How far from the turbo outlet is the o2 sensor? It should be over 18" and closer to 36" right before the cat (if you have one).
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:17 AM   #18
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Its in the decat pipe so miles away
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:56 AM   #19
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you don't have detonation judging from your power-gay spark table. You'll get noise after 5k rpm on the knock sensor, that's how it works. You're most prone to knock around max torque...3500-5500, so spark advance in the table should be lowest through there.

Your VE table is **** because its not linear, but we already went over that.

When you're road tuning, don't use fuel to curb detonation, roll back spark. Make det cans and then tell us if you have detonation...which you don't. I can't stress the need for det cans enough. I won't drive a car without them (when tuning for the first time). You wasted your money on that detonation detector thingy, but that's how you learn...through financial pain.

Your attitude is refreshing; you're more interested in getting help than crying like a bitch...you belong here. Now, PM me nudes of your GF, and I won't ban you, and she better have huge ****.
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:07 AM   #20
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hustler should have mod powers
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