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Old 04-21-2010, 03:19 AM   #1
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Default Ebc pos

Im having trouble trying to get my ebc to work. Stock wastegate is set at 7psi, trying to push 12psi. Keep hitting overboost (set at 15) like it is not opening at all. Tried adjusting p and also inverted. Doesn't seem to respond to anything. Can't hear the valve operating. Its a diy ebc. just trying to figure out if the valve is operating at all.... tried following scotts tuning guide. The software won't accept anything over 100 in p. Any suggestion on how to test the valve or what is wrong?
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:48 AM   #2
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What code version do you have?
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:26 AM   #3
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it's obviously operating the valve if it's grounding it out to make you go into overboost. But to check operation, turn it to open-loop mode and then set the table's lowest RPM to 100RPM. Then make it run at 50% DC. At idle you should be about to hear it rapidly clicking if you get your head near it, you'll never hear it otherwise.

you need to make sure your open/closed % are the wastegate valves not the EBC solenoid.

So it needs to be open = 0% and closed = 100% and then set it to inverted.

You should be able to put 250 into P, if not, I dunno what your deal is.
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Old 04-21-2010, 11:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
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What code version do you have?
Latest stable 2.1.0
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:14 PM   #5
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So if I am understanding correctly, someone hooking up to a normal single port internal gate would use "normal" and connect to the "COM" and "NO" ports on the valve? Or they could use "inverted" with the "COM" and "NC" ports.

And then people with externals (like me) who are plumbing things according to Tial's diagram:

...would use "normal" and would hook up to the "COM" and "NC" ports on the valve, or "inverted" and the "COM" and "NO" ports?

I think running in "normal" mode would be best just in case of a valve failure, but I suppose some valves don’t give you the option of NO and NC ports.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:21 PM   #6
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The code is just written so that higher duty = more open wastegate = lower boost

Therefore:
* Normal - 100% output pin duty cycle means the wastegate is fully open.
* Inverted - 0% output pin duty cycle means the wastegate is fully open.

The way I run plumb it with my integrated wastegate, when the solenoid is at 100% duty the wastegate is fully closed, so inverted must be set.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:23 PM   #7
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Post your .msq for us.

The 3.0.3 alphas have better boost code.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:55 PM   #8
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its so confusing that the duty cycle map represents the GATE duty cycle even though we are controlling the VALVE duty cycle

So it sounds like I am going to be running Inverted too...

For me running the NC port:
0% duty = open wastegate/minimum boost

If I ran Normal I would have to use the NO port, which would cause me to overboost if the valve shut off/failed

Last edited by therieldeal; 04-21-2010 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:53 PM   #9
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I have a copy of the MSQ we are using .. but I can't find a way to upload it. Not sure if my account it too noobish. I will try to find a work around and post it up here ASAP
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:04 PM   #10
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OK so the problem was quick reply. Here it is tuesdaynight.msq
We were messing around with the Proportional gain to try to get something to change, so the values are probably horrible. We tried running open loop as well as closed. Didn't seem to get any different results. We are always creating too much boost and hitting overboost control. I built the Boost Control Targets off of a myriad of info that we found. No clue if they are even good/functional.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:06 PM   #11
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change the polarity and call me in the morning.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:07 PM   #12
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One other thing that we were running into is while setting the P I D we cannot put any value over 100 in the "P" Value. It just kicks back an error saying value must be <= 100
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:09 PM   #13
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they fixed that going to 2.1.1, are you on 2.1.0? I can go to 200 on 2.1.1b

He'll probably back-port the MS-III code into MS-II soon, it's better.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
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change the polarity and call me in the morning.
We did try that last night. The only thing I don't remember is if I changed the closed / open duty %'s at the same time as I changed polarity. If we need "Inverted" will that also swap the closed / open duty %?
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
they fixed that going to 2.1.1, are you on 2.1.0?
Yes we are on 2.1.0 Sounds like we need to make a change there for sure. That has been one of the most frustrating things, we have found lots of tips for tuning the P I D but haven't been able to set our values to any of the recommended settings.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:12 PM   #16
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no. the closed duty must be less than the open duty... therefore you simply reverse the polarity.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:49 PM   #17
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Closed duty should usually be 0, and open should usually be 100.

Start with open loop. If a higher duty in the open-loop settings gives you higher boost, then you need to select the inverted setting.

Make it work with open-loop before closed loop. If the valve isn't making any noise and doesn't appear to have any effect in open-loop, then stop and figure out why before moving on.

Usually in this case it's something like you're using the wrong output to drive the boost circuit, or the wiring is bad and the boost circuit isn't actually turning the valve on/off.

If it doesn't even work in open loop mode, it's not a code issue there's a hardware or wiring issue.

Ken
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Old 04-22-2010, 01:09 AM   #18
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So we just did a bunch more testing and still unable to pinpoint the problem. Have tried open/closed 0/100 both ways, inverted/normal both ways. Still overboosting every time. Adjusted the Boost Control Duty Table per Braineack's suggestion. Unable to discern any noise. We tested the solenoid with the key off, pushing some pressure into the boost input and were able to see the wastegate opening. As soon as we turn the key on it snaps closed. So fairly certain it is functional. Pulling the MS to recheck solders and verify connections. Updates to come

Edit. Running 2.1.1 Now
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Old 04-22-2010, 01:33 AM   #19
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I think we fixed the problem. We modified the case ... seems to help
Ebc pos-applinside.jpg
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Old 04-22-2010, 03:23 AM   #20
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OK Greatish Success!! Thanks to a handy multimeter, found out that when Michael wired in the control circuit in the MS we were grounding out to the case. So after some tuning, we are getting proper boost but tons of oscillation. Our "P" value seems good. Trying to tune "I" right now. Posting a data log and current config. Hopefully we just missed something simple. Thanks again HUGE guys your help was excellent. Autocross coming up in 3 days so trying to get this tuned out for the event
wednesdayEnd.msq
ocilog.xls
BTW we did the log with second gear pulls. We don't have a real great area for 4th gear runs.

-Casey
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