Blkbrd69

NB2 using EFR + EBC turbo 9.5PSI w MS3PNP. Track TT, HPDE and lightly street driven.

For quite a while I have been running a solid street and track datalog VE Analyze w hand blending straight VE table.

Have not turned on AFR/EGO Control which I seem to understand, or Incorporate AFR target which is still a black art to my brain?

Lots of old posts from Savington, DNMakinson, emilio700, aidandj, George Washington, Braineack, Ted75zcar, sixshooter, y8s ext. consensus seems to be don't use it in boost with an MS2 but OK to use with limited table authority using MS3 table?

Problem is many of these posts are very old, pre EBC and pre variable EGO authority table vs just using a straight % across the board?

Reading a bunch on this forum and several others, it would seem to be a good idea to use EGO with a decent amount of authority 10% up to 100 KPA then tapering down to say 2-3% at 200 KPA, just to trim a bit for cold mornings hot afternoon fuel or slight variances in fuel alcohol content? As long as you maintain & calibrate your AFR sensor.

Would love to see photos and comments of EGO Authority tables and AFR/EGO Control settings? Currently have settings to not use table below 10 or above 20 AFR, just to not let a wonkey wideband screw up mixture.


Note: Photo for reference only as I'm not the guy to copy.

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

With the addition of the split Pos/Neg authority tables that we got with one of the recent betas, I allow the ECU to add fuel everywhere without limit (or at the allowed limit of 25%). Here is a snip from msextra where I requested this feature describing my position:

I mean that having the ECU add too much fuel is not something I am concerned about. Too much in this context being more than it should. If the ECU adds too much fuel as a result of EGO, the engine runs rich, which is generally a safe (non damaging) operating point. Therefore, I am comfortable giving the ECU more authority to make corrections that add fuel.

If the ECU pulls too much fuel... too much in this context is more than it should, the engine can go lean, which is more likely to result in an unsafe (damaging) operating point. I would prefer to limit the ECUs ability to reduce fuel as a result of EGO.

Now in the corner case of losing a cylinder, the O2 sensor will read a lean condition and add fuel, but I justify this as being an ok failure mode due to the fact that when I have misfire or lose a cylinder, I know it right away and return to a low load condition, and get myself to a place where I can diagnose the issue promptly.

One key is to either use a properly tuned EGO delay table, or to configure the EGO ignition events per correction step to a number that doesn't respond to transient events (16 was a good number IIRC the last time I used ignition steps). You don't want EGO responding to transients anyway, that is not what it is good for.

Incorporate AFR doesn't really play into this topic, I stand squarely on the side of it should always be turned on.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

We never used EGO correction on track. If O2 sensor dies, which happens, poor little box chases its tail. On street its not a bad idea as you're more likely to pay attention to gauges and warning lights.
Fixed table is your safety net. Warning light for fuel pressure a good idea. On our race cars with data dashes, we could set up a custom conditional warning light like >11.5:1 & > 130kpa or somesuch.

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

Or leave EGO on, but set authority to zero above 100 kPa, or so. I think mine is 2%, which is virtually nothing. (2% of 11.5 is 0.23)
I suppose you have to also disable AFR Safety System, save perhaps the warning light output. No spark or fuel kill.

Question: what is normal drift mode? to read rich, or to read lean? Or random, or varying?

I've never had mine show drift, but only (2) HPDE days, not a race environment. (as in running a calibration did not trigger a need to change my VE table)

If it dies completely, the controller should send a signal that is in one of the Do Not Correct zones.

DNM

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I have mine setup so an O2 sensor failure triggers CEL. I also prefer to run leaner in boost and maintain accurate control of AFR everywhere.

Edit: sensor failure also disables correction.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Dunno. Been a while since I played with those functions. For sure I'm getting rusty.

poormxdad

I'm not sorry to resurrect an old thread.

I have nowhere near the experience of the rest of you, only about eight years with a standalone and a wideband, but I've never had one fail to the rich side. Innovate MTX-L with Bosch sensors have always failed to 22.4. Have any of you had one fail to read something on the other end?

Thanks,

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

@Ted75zcar

In the past, I tried to do this, but always got the CEL at startup (cause the O2 controller tends to cycle off during starting). My set-up is an AEM connected to the MS power, and Analog input.

EDIT: Actually, I now recall that I ignored that issue. The primary concern was that when I got into decel fuel cut, the AEM reports 18.0, with no variation. The CEL triggers on lack of fluctuation.

How have you gotten around this common issue?

DNM

Ted75zcar

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I don't remember ever having to do anything for that specifically. I do have EGO setup to delay for 15 seconds after start, and CEL ignore fluctuations delay for 20 seconds. I suspect that the failure mode of output high (open sensor) for your EGO controller is going to read leaner than 18, which should allow you to setup CEL to a value higher than typical fuel cut on decel. I may have had similar issues with minimum fluctuation, as I have that set to zero.

I do remember dealing with one car that had innovate, which was such a piece of garbage forced me to not enable EGO sensor checks.

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

I’ll try the delay. Thanks.