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Old 04-21-2009, 01:10 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by GT3man2001 View Post
Kind wish I had kept my last car. Nissan crowd > Miata crowd.
its never too late to sell and go back.

searching "idle" in titles gave this on the first half of the page:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t32577/
there's also this gem which you would already know if you read and didn't expect everyone to do it for you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Idle Control valves
As long as the MS ECU has been upgraded internally (see the main MSnS Extra Website) with a high powered transitor in place of the
standard idle transistor it can control most idle valves as long as they are NOT stepper motors (these have 4 wires/connectors) Most 2 or 3
wire valves (e.g. Bosch 0280 140 505)
Idle control can be used in B&G on/off, Warm up, or Closed-Loop Modes.
B&G on/off simply opens or closes a valve to provide additional air below a temperature threshold
Warm up mode linearly varies the duty cycle of a 2 or 3 wire solenoid actuated valve to provide additional air during cold startup, while
gradually scaling down the duty cycle until the engine is warm.
Closed-loop mode attempts to keep the engine idling at a set rpm by using PWM with a 2 wire solenoid actuated valve, and actively varying
the duty cycle to maintain rpm.
Warmup Settings:
Lower temp idle frequency is the higher duty cycle required to start and run a cold engine. (115 is a good starting point)
Upper temp idle frequency is the duty cycle the idle valve will be scaled down to as the engine warms up. ( try zero here)
These two values are linearly interpolated from one to the other starting from the lower engine temp to the higher engine temp (fast idle temp,
and slow idle temp.)
Idle valve frequency This is generally something most people will not need to mess with, however, different idle valves are designed to work
best at specific operational frequencies. Note that the Frequency of actuation is 1000 / this value (255 is a good starting point)
Please Note: true DUTY CYCLE% = Lower or Upper dc * 100 / Idle Valve Frequency value example Freq value - 200 = 50 hz operation, a
DC value of 80 = 80*100/200 = 40% true duty cycle
While most valves operate at 100 hertz, some older style 2-wire valves will work better at frequencies as low as 39 hertz. There is an inverse
relationship between frequency of operation and control precision because of the algorithm Used to control the PWM output. Lower
frequencies have more steps between dc values. 100hz operation has 100 steps and therefore has 1% control steps. 50hz operation has 200
steps and has 0.5% duty cycle steps and that is why the duty cycle values put into MT need to be double the true DC% value.
Some valves may emit a buzzing sound which can be eliminated by increasing the frequency above 100 hertz.
There is a formula for modifying the idle valve frequency. The formula is '10000/desired frequency = x where x is is the variable you input in
megatune. For example '100' would be 100 hertz, and '50' would be 200 hertz
Closed Loop Settings:
This is fairly experimental code, but with careful manipulation of variables it should be possible to produce a stable idle.
Cranking (dc) is the duty cycle required at cranking. (try Zero here)
Minimum (dc) is the duty cycle slightly lower than a warm idle dc when regulated.
Closed (dc) is the duty cycle where the valve closes.
The values here follow the rule above and are related to the frequency selected and are not true DC except when the idlefreq values is 100.
Some valves are normally closed (use 0 here) others require a certain DC to clsoe and will regulate above this value. Bosch 2 wire valves are
normally open, close at 25% and regulate at about 40%.
Fast Idle RPM is the idle target for the engine at, or below the fast idle temperature.
Slow Idle RPM is the idle target for the engine at, or above the slow idle temperature (fully warmed up).
The two RPM set points are linearly interpolated between the two temperatures to provide a smooth transition during warmup
TPS Threshold is the point above which the idle valve closes in ADC (as it is no longer needed).
Idle Activation (rpm) is 'how many rpm' above idle that the idle valve returns to operation after the throttle has been opened and closed again.
This follows the idle speed as it is interpolated from Fast Idle RPM to Slow Idle RPM
Dashpot Settle is the wait time required after a dashpot event for the rpms to settle below the idle activation point. After a dashpot it is
possible that rpms will overshoot the activation point and this is the time required to settle below activation point.
Dashpot Adder (dc) is the dashpot duty cycle added to the last controlled idle duty cycle which allows it to recover to a nice idle with
minimal overshoot. These values should be low: 1-5 DC
Deadband range This is a range of rpm that you do not want it to bother changing duty cycle to regulate idle.
30 to 50 rpm seems to be good here try smaller values unitl it seems stable.
Adaptive idle control This controls the time between idle control events. The goal is to have a Slow Recovery which is tuned to the engine's
time constant at idle. You do not want it to hunt nor have falling idle speed. The Fast Recovery is how fast you want it to recover to a decent
idle when the idle speed is higher or lower than the target this can be tuned for startup and to see what is needed to recover if idle speed drops
significantly below target for example when the A/C or electric fans kick on and the idle drops below target.
The rpm values determine the curve. The lower value should be close to the dead band value and the upper one should be a bit further away,
maybe 100 or 200 rpm the next 2 values are time constants needed for startup and idle valve closure
Closure speed controls the speed at which the idle valve closes. It is the time step delay between each as it steps to a closed dc value
Startup delay is a wait time right after the engine is started that the system stabilizes before it attempts to find an idle speed

You didn't give any detail in your launch control question so i can't find the answer to your mystery question. However, you can try this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t10093/
or you can go here
MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com


You're more lazy than I am, and that's ******* amazing. Do you want someone to drive out to you house and do it for you or is this enough?

Oh, and since you can't take the heat, get the **** out of our crematory because **** you.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:16 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
sexually illicit story involving tweety-bird floormats



That link was very excellent proof, and very telling.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:32 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I'm not even going to bother with further thuggery or big red text or a two-paragraph sexually illicit story involving tweety-bird floormats and masturbation. That link says more than I ever could about your character and intelligence.
That was over a year ago. I had been in the Miata scene for maybe all of two or three months. We all make mistakes, and although I would like to forget about it, some fucktards keep bringing it back up. Drop it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
searching "idle" in titles gave this on the first half of the page:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t32577/
there's also this gem which you would already know if you read and didn't expect everyone to do it for you:
I've already received help on the idle problem, and made my changes. Car idles like a rock now. This thread is not about my idle. Did you even read it?

Quote:
You didn't give any detail in your launch control question so i can't find the answer to your mystery question. However, you can try this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t10093/
or you can go here
MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com
Since nobody helped on this, I searched a bit more and already found the answer. Thanks anyway.


Quote:
You're more lazy than I am, and that's ******* amazing. Do you want someone to drive out to you house and do it for you or is this enough?
That would be great actually, got some free time?

Quote:
Oh, and since you can't take the heat, get the **** out of our crematory because **** you.
I can take the heat, and I can give it right back. But then people get ban happy. This thread has gone to ****....Sav please close it down. I'll figure this **** out on my own.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:33 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
MX-5 Miata Forum - Turbo help please - R1600Turbo = GT3man2001

I'm not even going to bother with further thuggery or big red text or a two-paragraph sexually illicit story involving tweety-bird floormats and masturbation. That link says more than I ever could about your character and intelligence.



Wow, just wow.


After seeing how hard we are on newb (and the newbish), I've been trying to go out of my way to make this forum helpful to those that maybe aren't the best at seeking help.


I guess "no good deed goes unpunished" applies here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by R1600Turbo

I think that has done it. I'm done here. Just done. All this site is, is a bunch of younger guys that like to argue with one another.

So I guess when you're done HERE we'll see the above quoted from GT3man2001?



EDIT: I won't try and judge you for what you did on my other favorite miata forum, but try not to dig the same hole over here if you seek help -you've started two "I've tried everything and don't know anymore...plz help" threads in as many weeks-.

The best way to RECEIVE help is to clarify and follow advice, find out how to enact it (less handholding eg. "show me"), and be less argumentative with the locals.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:41 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by GT3man2001 View Post
Since nobody helped on this, I searched a bit more and already found the answer. Thanks anyway.
Congratulations on finding your answer. Do the next guy a favor and post up what you found so it will be easier for him to find the same answer.

Whether you think these guys are trying to help you or not, you found the answer by doing what they wanted you to do all along. Kind of funny how that works.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:44 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by GT3man2001 View Post
I can take the heat, and I can give it right back. But then people get ban happy. This thread has gone to ****....Sav please close it down. I'll figure this **** out on my own.
You cried like a ------ on the last page, and now you're ordering around the men on this forum? You have no chance of figuring this simple stuff on your own. You're like a trailer-trash baby-momma from COP's...you need us. (and by us I don't include myself because I'm dumb, however I can search)

You should probably quit running your mouth like a bitch before you get fired. That's genuine advice you should take to heart. You're obviously 17-years old and if I were a punkass mall-rat teenager again, working in an awesome shop I'd want someone wise beyond my years to clue me in so I could continue working in a bad *** shop. I'd give you some tips with the finer sex so you could break out of "virgin hell," but your attitude sucks so you have to deal with the abrasions on your baby-***** for a few more years until you discover the joys of GHB and date-rape because its your only chance.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:46 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
So I guess when you're done HERE we'll see the above quoted from GT3man2001?
No actually.

Quote:
-you've started two "I've tried everything and don't know anymore...plz help" threads in as many weeks-.
Not exactly.
Quote:
be less argumentative with the locals.
I didn't start it. Thank hustler for that.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:48 AM   #48
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You cried like a ------ on the last page, and now you're ordering around the men on this forum? You have no chance of figuring this simple stuff on your own.
I didn't order anyone around. I simply told him that the thread went to **** so we may as well close shop.

Quote:
You should probably quit running your mouth like a bitch before you get fired. That's genuine advice you should take to heart. You're obviously 17-years old and if I were a punkass mall-rat teenager again, working in an awesome shop I'd want someone wise beyond my years to clue me in so I could continue working in a bad *** shop. I'd give you some tips with the finer sex so you could break out of "virgin hell," but your attitude sucks so you have to deal with the abrasions on your baby-***** for a few more years until you discover the joys of GHB and date-rape because its your only chance.
24 actually. Speaking from experience there hustler?
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:50 AM   #49
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Savington isn't a mod here.. (though he's probably first in line)

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Old 04-21-2009, 01:58 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
Savington isn't a mod here.. (though he's probably first in line)

not until he runs a faster lap than Emilio, lol.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:59 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
Savington isn't a mod here.. (though he's probably first in line)

He wouldn't do it...it appears he thoroughly enjoys the split personality he has going.



Honestly OP, the part that got a rise out of me is that you work for FM. I would like to think that the folks that are a part of the development and manufacture of their kits are capable of FINDING the answers.

It's okay to have questions though, that's why we're here, but don't get all uppity when you don't get sunshine and the exact answer in the form you wanted.

You can say all day hustler started it...but if you can't survive someone shitting on your thread a little, you probably shouldn't start threads here.




BACK ON TOPIC:


Your first order of business is to fix your WBO2.

I've already said this, the response was basically "I've done everything right, I don't know what to doez!!11!!" (ignore condescending tone here).

Keep reading, figure it out, come back. You basically can't do **** until you have that piece of your setup at 100%.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:06 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Honestly OP, the part that got a rise out of me is that you work for FM. I would like to think that the folks that are a part of the development and manufacture of their kits are capable of FINDING the answers.
There's nothing wrong with the kit. FM does not do MS, therefor when it comes to that I am basically on my own. (except for this forum)


Quote:
Your first order of business is to fix your WBO2.
I'm going to go through EVERYTHING tomorrow that deals with the WB. I tried a different ground tonight and nothing has changed. PLX recommends putting some isolator over the 0-5V wire to the MS to help with interference. Wondering if that has something to do with it...
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:16 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by GT3man2001 View Post
There's nothing wrong with the kit. FM does not do MS, therefor when it comes to that I am basically on my own. (except for this forum)

I don't remember saying anything about the kit. I'm sure FM makes FINE kit, I just don't have the coin.

I was saying in a subtle way that FM shop guys should be a little smarter and more motivated than the average forum member.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GT3man2001 View Post

I'm going to go through EVERYTHING tomorrow that deals with the WB. I tried a different ground tonight and nothing has changed. PLX recommends putting some isolator over the 0-5V wire to the MS to help with interference. Wondering if that has something to do with it...
Good plan checking everything. But it looks like a configuration problem to me. Again, I don't know the PLX, but if you have two outputs like the LC-1, then you can have good values showing on gauge, and still be sending crap to MS.

I don't think shielding a wire is going to fix what I saw in your datalog.

EDIT: This isn't a MS thing, everything looks fine in your configurator etc.

This means pulling out that stereo cable, and checking the tabs in LM Programmer.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:22 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
if you have two outputs like the LC-1, then you can have good values showing on gauge, and still be sending crap to MS.

I don't think shielding a wire is going to fix what I saw in your datalog.

EDIT: This isn't a MS thing, everything looks fine in your configurator etc.

This means pulling out that stereo cable, and checking the tabs in LM Programmer.
That's exactly what's happening. Actual gauge works fine, MS gauge is whacky.

LM Programmer?
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:29 AM   #55
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LM Programmer?
Nm, sorry, it's the program used to setup the outputs on the Innovative products.

Did your wideband not come with a CD or anything?

If you just slapped it in, it's probably not working right. You need to calibrate it, although it may work alright out of the box.

The controller however is usually setup to put AFR numbers to the gauge, but you have to specify the second output so that it gives nice numbers to MS.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:43 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Nm, sorry, it's the program used to setup the outputs on the Innovative products.

Did your wideband not come with a CD or anything?

If you just slapped it in, it's probably not working right. You need to calibrate it, although it may work alright out of the box.

The controller however is usually setup to put AFR numbers to the gauge, but you have to specify the second output so that it gives nice numbers to MS.
You know honestly, I can't remember. Thanks for asking though, I just put an email through to PLX to see if it should have and how much a new one will cost.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:13 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by GT3man2001 View Post
You know honestly, I can't remember. Thanks for asking though, I just put an email through to PLX to see if it should have and how much a new one will cost.
My reply to you three days ago was:
Quote:
...Get the PLX to work with your MS or get a WBO2 that will work and thus log with MS...
What is an e-mail to PLX going to solve? You need to the your laptop out, serial cable, check the configuration of the PLX output with LM Programmer, then check you MS .ini-file settings for the corresponding WBO2 and make sure it all reads the same. And meanwhile recalibrate the PLX as per instructions it came with. Then log a run and make MLV read the same AFR values too.
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:17 AM   #58
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But then people get ban happy.
I don't moderate here. The simple fact that you're still able to view and post on this forum is proof of that.
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:45 AM   #59
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The guy is running an MBC and not making boost properly. Before he fixes the wideband issue, he should fix his boost leak as that will cause WB issues all by itself.

Put a boost pressure tester in your intake and test for leaks. FM has gotta have one or many of those in the shop.

Or set up your MBC correctly.

Frank
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:13 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Its an art. However, you win at taking the internet seriously.
Now you've done gone and hurt my feelings!Oh, wait, I should be serious. You're a hand-balling powerbottom poz rod so and so...ah **** it, you win.
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