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Old 06-13-2010, 12:34 AM   #1
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Default Got my DIYPNP running, now have questions

I finally got some time to work on the car again and got it started and somewhat idling after using the DIYAutotune startup map, as suggested to do by Brain and Ben (with changes for my setup, of course). Now I want to get tuning, but there a couple things holding me back.

I'm running a DIYPNP with sequential injection and the 4bar MAP with baro correction. Otherwise I'm running stock ignition hardware, and the MAF is still in place until I get the MS running better and no longer will be switching between it and the stock ecu for when I want to drive, lol.

I can start the car just fine (at least on a warm start -- I drove around a bit before plugging in the MS tonight), it'll sit and idle pretty decently, but as soon as I touch the gas pedal, it more or less dies. It will stay running if I give it gas real quick and hold it well above idle, but it's impossible to hold a steady rpm (second issue, I assume tuning VE will fix some of this, posting log of issue as well). I was able to take the car for a quick spin around the block and let VE analyze live do some work, but the car would die whenever I came to a stop.

Also, the DIY startup map uses PWM Warmup for idle, whereas I see a lot of people talk about using closed loop idle on here. I take it that one of these is better than the other? And will maybe keep the car from dying when the A/C is turned on?

Also the tach is screwy at RPMs above 2000, but I think I'm not alone in that issue. The MS still reads a stable RPM, though. And the tach does the same stuff whether or not the tacho out is set to on.

I appreciate the help.
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Old 06-13-2010, 01:29 AM   #2
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Did you calibrate your tps?
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Old 06-13-2010, 02:39 AM   #3
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Yes TPS is calibrated. I thought that might be an issue, too, so I double checked. The problem is definitely related, though. I did some more test driving just now and every time there is a throttle change that isn't very gradual or is abrupt (say, going from 10 to 40% throttle) fuel is cut for a spilt second. Entirely, like my AFR hits full lean on the gauge. And then it comes back in.

I was also having an issue getting it to rev or hold steady revs -- overrun fuel cut related -- turned it off for the time being since it's just another variable, though setting the tps variable to 1% helped.

Anyways, I've got a messy log of the main problem. The lean AFR spikes follow right after changes in throttle. Also, the tach cuts in and out whenever steady/increasing throttle isn't applied. Probably unrelated, but I'm still learning.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:07 PM   #4
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Hi,
I'm no expert but am also doing and learning the tuning process, got some problems similar that unable to solve, but I've got better luck that my 93 will run very smooth, except the fuel map is definite having some problems in it..
For your situations, did you try to switch off the accel & decel, after start enrichments, O2 Corrections and Baro Corrections?
This way, all you're dealing with will be the fuel table alone, I believe the jumpy area will be more, but then, you may focus on the fuel map alone first..
I do not know if this is right, but I believe this may help, as it works on me..
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:42 PM   #5
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Hrm - I'm going through alot of the same issues, although I haven't enabled my tachout yet, my tach is about 1100 rpms off and works its way up to 2k rpms on the dash tach and then falls like a rock. I'm assuming when I finally do enable it, it will perform correctly, but perhaps not? What output is your tachout set to?

The throttle change stumble sounds like in my case, steep changes in fuel load seem to be causing a stumble with a lean condition. After -alot- of review of the log played over and over in slow motion and zoomed 4x and 8x, I started finding parts of the map that I could compensate with more fuel to desolve these lean spots.

In some parts of the map, I've been able to resolve my stumble, but the one I cannot get rid of is taking off in first, when first stepping on the pedal I'm currently having to rev it to about 1200 to get past this lean spot and get the car moving, otherwise it stumbles and moans and groans. According to my review of the map, and the way it idles, it should not be lean in this area, but out of no where - bam the car wants to stall.

I've also been noticing in my logs that on occasion I have a dip in my timing from whatever it is at the time to 1.

This has been causing the car to lean out under certian conditions. I'm hoping to knock this out and a few other issues, but this is definately a time consuming task to take on.

So perhaps you need to add a little fuel in there around those lean spots?
Maybe alot by the looks of those AFRs?

Whats the timing map look like?
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Old 06-14-2010, 08:51 PM   #6
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I also have an issue with my tach being all screwy on my 94. Still haven't figured it out.
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Old 06-14-2010, 09:00 PM   #7
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If you use the DIYPNP to run your dash tach and wire it up but don't activate the tach out in software, it will not properly work. You will see screwy drop outs in your tach after a certain RPM, and it will probably drop out with large throttle movements. The solution is to turn the tacho output on.
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Old 06-14-2010, 10:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
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If you use the DIYPNP to run your dash tach and wire it up but don't activate the tach out in software, it will not properly work. You will see screwy drop outs in your tach after a certain RPM, and it will probably drop out with large throttle movements. The solution is to turn the tacho output on.
Problem is on 94 miata's the tach is ran by the car and not the ecu.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:14 PM   #9
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I had the tach output off for a while -- I will it on when I get off work tonight and have some time to play with the car.

Turbobarber - my timing map was taken from a post on here, a few people said they used it and I think it originated from paul's 300hp beast. Have you played with the accel features much? I am going to try playing with these tonight, too, in addition to trying to richen some spots on the map, though it is fairly smooth in the vacuum areas. A big concern is that if you look at my posted log, injector pw's go really short on tip in of any sort. Not sure what to make of that.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:15 PM   #10
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Alright, more data, no solution yet.

I've got a mlv of what's happening. Basically, there's a lag every time the throttle increases. The injector pw goes very short, then up to what it should be for given conditions. It made the car sound like I was revving at a stoplight even though I was just trying to hold a steady rpm. Brap - braaaap. I added in a lot of pw in the Accel Wizard settings, including putting TPSdot down to 50%/s. It helped -- revved up very quick with a stumble only on smaller throttle changes, but I don't think that's the solution. Plus it made AFRs go super rich/lean/rich/normal.

edwardsuen -- EGO, baro, etc were disabled or set to 0 when I was testing. Unfortunately I think the culprit isn't completely in the fuel table.

Also,
Engine stumbles/dies when shifting and coming to a stop
Tach is still wonky but I'm not terribly concerned

The issue is in the 2nd chart of my mlv.

Any ideas?
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:50 AM   #11
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This problems are very similar from my experience, that is why I've got some very rich sport and very lean spot from my VE table, but the outcome of the WBO2 sensor just comes in nicely with the target table I've set, I know this is not the way to tune my engine, but that is the only way I may tackle at the moment, you may see my "bad tune" listed in the forum.
From your table, I saw the fuel is really not enough, I guess you may worth a try to take away the common sense that the figures should be working from low to high from bottom to top and from left to right! Just keep on adding fuel until the WB told you it's correct.
I do think about the PW and also query my require fuel is set correct, I added the fuel pressure and fuel delivery from bank 1 & 2, and finally comes up with a set of gauges like this, then I may look at the DC,PW,Idle DC, Warmup enrichment, EGO Corrections....

From my experience, once I match the timing by locking the timing to 10 degree, once I start the engine, the spark table will more likely to start with 17 at idle area, then work the way up from idle to mid rpm range and retard again. I do not have turbo, so I do not need to care about the upper boost area that should also retard the timing.
But you may see my map are really funny in my post area.. :(
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:18 AM   #12
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When my tach was screwy, it was a ground problem.
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longuyen88 View Post
Problem is on 94 miata's the tach is ran by the car and not the ecu.
With the stock computer, you're right. When you're adding a standalone it's a matter of how you set it up.

messiah, It looks to me like your fuel table needs a good bit of work. I'd recommend turning off AE and working on the table. Then when it's closer to where it needs to be, get AE dialed in again. Right now I think you're masking a problem in the table with too much AE.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
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With the stock computer, you're right. When you're adding a standalone it's a matter of how you set it up.

messiah, It looks to me like your fuel table needs a good bit of work. I'd recommend turning off AE and working on the table. Then when it's closer to where it needs to be, get AE dialed in again. Right now I think you're masking a problem in the table with too much AE.
I followed the diypnp wiring from diy. When I have tach output on, MS gives a config error, something like 65K rpms.
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:23 AM   #15
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Well, I fixed the tach issue. I was being retarded and had the output set to IGN instead of TACH OUT. Whoops.

Still no dice on the stumble. As soon as I change throttle, RPMs drop. At idle, at speed, etc. There's a lag. At idle, the engine dies or almost dies, at speed it's like power is gone for a second (AFRs hit 22) and then comes back in a jerky kind of way. If I maintain a certain speed or accelerate very slowly (very little throttle change per second), there is no stumble. Basically, I can punch it, stumble, accelerate strongly, go into boost with okay AFRs, let off the gas and then hit it again, bam, flat on its face for a second.

It makes the car very hard to get moving, shift, etc. And it still dies when coming to a stop if I let the clutch out above 1500 RPMs.

I added a lot of VE to cells around idle but that didn't help either. I cruised around with steady throttle at varying speeds below 40mph and 1-3 gears while letting VE analyze do its thing to help with my VE table, but it still didn't do anything for the stumble. It was pretty awesome to see my AFRs correct themselves while I was maintaining the same RPM, though.

AE is more or less disabled; TPSdot is set way high. There's gotta be something I'm missing here. I can post an updated msq if anyone thinks they can find my issue, but really VE is the only thing that's changed.
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:54 AM   #16
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start using EAE.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:11 AM   #17
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start using EAE.
Can you post a screenshot of your EAE settings? I've read the manual for this part, and even tried to mess with it, but no dice.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:59 AM   #18
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turn regular AE off and just start with adhere-to-walls on the highway in 5th gear at various rates of stabbing the throttle and start adding or subtracting correction based on the AFRs you get. If anything you want it to get a *little* richer. Then when that's fairly good start working on sucked-from-walls and adding/subtracting correction based on what the AFRs do when you lift the throttle at various rates. Too much and it can pull fuel too fast and it hesitates and feels harsh when you lift the throttle.
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longuyen88 View Post
I followed the diypnp wiring from diy. When I have tach output on, MS gives a config error, something like 65K rpms.
That would be a settings error. Make sure that you set your tachout pin to tachout.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:02 PM   #20
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How is EAE going to solve my problem? From the couple msq's I've looked at from on here, AE shouldn't be needed at idle engine speeds. The problem happens at all RPMs.
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