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Old 06-26-2013, 08:54 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Its mostly personal preference, but certain rpm and kpa breakpoints are definitely helpful.

IMO:

You want at least one row in high vacuum, 10-20kpa
You want as many rows in the part throttle and cruise areas because that's where you'll be most of the time
You want at least one row over your target kpa in case you overshoot target

You want 1 rpm row lower than your idle target, 1 at target, and 1 slightly over
You want to stagger them evenly in the midrange/cruise
You want 1 rpm row at or a little past your redline/fuel cut

That's how I try to set mine up anyways
thanks, helpful
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:28 AM   #82
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personally i wouldn't run quite so lean at 70kPa and high revs.

also, spark table looks much better - i think a 3D plot on your original one would have shown up a wall of timing coming in sharply up to 2300rpm.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:52 AM   #83
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Tweaked my target table based on some of the feedback that was received (was out of town all week, and did not have my laptop):



Better?

Thanks,

Jason
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:40 AM   #84
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Horrible. Way too rich in the cruise, way too lean in the upper rpms.

55kpa to 4k rpm 15.5afr, 5k and above 14.0 going down to 13 by redline

70kpa up to 4k rpm 14.7
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:55 AM   #85
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it's not horrible stfu.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:56 PM   #86
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The table generator will give you something like this:



Yes, it is rich. Hence, it is a safe starting point. I highly recommend turning on "include AFR target" under general settings. Once the VE table is well tuned with VEAL you can go back to change the AFR table for better mpgs.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:58 PM   #87
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how do you get a 12 x 12 AFR table?
I see a VE table generator, where is the AFR table generator?
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:31 AM   #88
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I forgot the ms1/pnp folks do not have the include afr target option. For ms1 you must retune VE after changing the AFR targets.

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Old 06-30-2013, 07:42 AM   #89
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Yep, that's why I'm trying to get the best AFR targets that I can so I can manually tund the thing line by line. I learned the hard way that just using VEAL is NOT the way to go.

Thanks,

Jason
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:48 AM   #90
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This thread now sucks.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:52 AM   #91
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Pretty sure I have good targets now. Just need to get parts back from machine shop (will probably be a while). Once I get it back together and start tuning, I'll post up my progress. Thanks to everyone for the info that has been provided.

Jason
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Old 06-30-2013, 11:11 AM   #92
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no your targets are bad, you really need to use random generator to come up with good ones, make sure to focus the most on areas youll never hit with a turboed motor; you should scale the table so only 5000RPM and above and 30-70kPa have resolution.

Last edited by Braineack; 06-30-2013 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 06-30-2013, 11:28 AM   #93
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The're a bit rich in the 74kpa row, and perhaps also in the top two rows.
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:52 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
no your targets are bad, you really need to use random generator to come up with good ones, make sure to focus the most on areas youll never hit with a turboed motor; you should scale the table so only 5000RPM and above and 30-70kPa have resolution.
Funny guy.
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:57 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
no your targets are bad, you really need to use random generator to come up with good ones, make sure to focus the most on areas youll never hit with a turboed motor; you should scale the table so only 5000RPM and above and 30-70kPa have resolution.
Give Phil Tobin some feedback on his table generator if you think it needs improvement. I bet he was thinking of tuning safety too.

We have seen so many engine failures due to poor initial tuning. VEAL works well if you give it a good place to start. It is easy to rescale tables, smooth VE, and lean out cruise areas after the tune is safe.
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:05 PM   #96
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Here is what the table generator gave me:

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Old 06-30-2013, 03:56 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernmx5 View Post
Give Phil Tobin some feedback on his table generator if you think it needs improvement.
Many of the algorithms in TS, and in the MS community as a whole, were originally intended to deal with 19th century steam engines, Chevy V8s, and other similar devices.

More modern engines (those designed using math and science) have somewhat different requirements.
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:18 PM   #98
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So, after looking at what the table generator created, and some of the feedback that was received, I made a few more tweaks to my targets:



Did I make a mistake? Should I go back to what I had?

Thanks,

Jason
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:53 PM   #99
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what is the purpose of the AFR table?
my understanding if enabled it is a "goal" that the EMU attempts to achieve [but never does because of the dynamic environment]

in the absence of an AFR, what?

is the VE table the same, a goal?
my understanding is it is a fact, at any given KPa:rpm pair, xxx quantity of fuel is injected

is this right
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:00 PM   #100
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VE should be what is actually being injected, afr table is targets for tuning.

Jason
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