HighRes on MSPNP - anyone?
 

Is anyone running the HighRes firmware on their MSPNP? If so, did you have to jump through any hoops to get things running nicely?

I'm thinking I'll change to this firmware before I start tuning my fuel map so I don't have to do things twice, but I'd like to know any "interesting" experiences people are having first, if any!

I was thinking the best way to go about it was to use the same values in EasyTherm as the original MSPNP firmware, so changes are kept to a minimum. Hopefully this will let me open the MSPNP MSQ with the rest of the settings intact.

Cheers

Jerry & I spoke about the highrez firmware once 6 months ago and determined that it really isn't necessary for my car and my tune.

I think the easytherm values will be the least of your concerns. You'll need to go page by page and make sure every setting is correct

I'm surprised at that. When I used the High-Res it markedly improved engine smoothness and idle stability.

I only went back to the stock code as it induced a really irritating Missfire, (which I'm convinced is earth related but have never been able to fix).

Ben, I'd advise giving it a try, it doesn't take long and you can load your current MSQ to the code with no issues (that's what I did). I think you'll be impressed with the improvment.

The car runs fine now, including idle. I'm not unwilling to try, but I don't know if it would be worthwhile...

Seems like there was some discussion about that misfire problem in the MS1 development forum over at MSExtra. I got the impression that the problem started in build 10a, but somewhere between there and 10d2 it got fixed. Any idea which build you were using?

I'm definitely going to give it a shot.

yeah the latest currently available ;)

my wiring under the footwell is a mess, and my earths are shite, I have a wonky CLT signal from it so i'm 99% sure that's the issue.

I did run fine with it when n/a too.

Mine was 'fine' before too, but It ran *better* afterwards :). Smoother and free'er somehow. I got a minor (1 - 2) MPG improvement.

OK, so the most recent build of HiRes is 10d2, correct? What downsides would there be if I reflashed? I have a non standard 4 bar map sensor. Have the issues with non standard sensors been remedied?

I am not against improvements, but I AM happy with the way the car is now. And I have plenty of grouding between the MS and head.

According to the release notes in the .asm:
Richyvrlimited, I'm still learning the software here. Did you have to make any changes to MegaTune (or the filestructure on the PC in general) or is it as simple as just dumping the binary into the MS and running?

Thanks. I d/l'd the file but haven't opened it or anything.
Next dumb ass question. Say something just isn't right with the new firmware. There's no known reason why I couldn't simply flash my old firmware back in right?

I can give this a shot on Sunday.

You askin' the guy who hasn't even finished his own MS build yet? :D

Yeah, from what I gather over at MSExtra.com and from the datasheet for the CPU, doing a firmware reflash cures all ills.

No, I wasn't asking the guy who hasn't tried it yet.

Yes you can just reflash it. I did the standard firmware to MSnS-extra flash on my old MegaSquirt and that required a jumper on the board, but once you are running some variant of the extra code you can flash without it.

I just copied the values from inside matfactor.inc and cltfactor.inc in the MSPNP car folder then punched them into EasyTherm. I have written the new .s19 file, hopefully that is all that needs to be done for the firmware itself. Ben, my MSPNP is running a Map Daddy, I am assuming this is the same as your setup?

Now to set up MegaTune...

Here is a copy of my modified (MSPNP prepped) HighRes 10d2 firmware if you are feeling lazy.

Cheers

nope, nothing I just saved my msq, uploaded the Highres code to the chip, loaded the old msq and fired her up :)

had to do a minor amount of tweaking as I found I could run the idle leaner without it stumbling.

similarly I did the reverse when I reverted back to the standard extra code.

yup, if you don't like it simple write the standard extra code back easy peasy :)

Yeah, I'm running the mapdaddy. Thanks

The msns-extra.ini included with HighRes is different, so you might want to use that too. I've replaced the link in my post above so it is now a zip file containing the firmware and the msns-extra.ini.

Cheers

Ben, did you end up trying this? I haven't tried it on mine as I have been worried it would run a bit leaner due to the higher resolution and I don't have an LC-1 yet.

No, I did not because someone tried before me with bad results. He had a failure when loading the new firmware, and he was not able to flash the old firmware in without opening the box and installing the boot jumper. I don't want crack open the box and mess up my warranty.

We'd only void the warranty if you actually made changes to the board - unscrewing the lid and putting a boot jumper in place doesn't count unless you use a soldering iron.

And yes, if it goes wrong you can just reload the standard code.

Great to have such a supportive vendor! I will be the guinea pig with this as I have ordered my LC-1 now. I'll keep you guys posted.

So, my MegaSquirt PNP is now running HighRes 10d2! Overall, I'm impressed with the change, it seems to idle more like it did with the stock computer. I had to fine tune my idle a bit but that didn't take long.

I have noticed a couple of times that I get a slight miss and the tach drops a bit for no apparent reason, I will try and pin point why or when it is happening.

The steps I took to install HighRes:

1. Downloaded the HighRes 10d2 firmware image from the MS1 development section of msextra.com.

2. Grabbed msns-extra.s19 and msns-extra.ini from the zip file, discarded the rest.

3. Modded msns-extra.s19 with EasyTherm so it used the same values as the standard MSPNP firmware.

You can start at step 4 if you use my modified (MSPNP prepped) HighRes 10d2 firmware.

4. Made a copy of my current MegaSquirt project folder. My old project folder was called "MSPNP MM9093 with AFM", so I made a copy called "MSPNP MM9093 with AFM HR10d2".

5. Copied msns-extra.s19 and msns-extra.ini into the new project folder created in step 4. Also dropped another copy of msns-extra.s19 into the "src" subfolder.

6. Unplugged my ignitor.

7. Ran download-firmware.bat from the new project folder.

8. Fire up MegaTune, choose your new project then load your old MSQ. You will get a few warnings, check the audit.log to ensure nothing is too serious. Once the MSQ is loaded, switch the car off again.

9. Plug the ignitor back in.

10. Start the car on HighRes!

Shouldn't it be:

6. Unplug ignitor
7. Run download-firmware.bat
7b. Reload MSQ
8. Plug in ignitor

I *think* I remember the docs saying that you can fry your ignitor if you don't reload your .msq before plugging it back in.

Nice work and thanks for posting the step by step - I'll have to try it at some point.

Cheers!

Jeff

Yes you are correct! The first time you re-load the MSQ after the flash you need to have the ignitor unplugged, but after that it doesn't matter. I will amend the steps now, thanks! :bigtu:

Just FYI I have posted about the miss on msextra.com:
http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?p=177785#177785

this miss is why I reverted b ack to the stock code, I'd assumed that it was earthing related.

I don't get the tach dropout tho...

seems lIke Jerry has fixed the problem, ood job that man!! I'll be getting my soldering iron out over the weekend then :)

fantastic news :)

That is some clever troubleshooting. Good thing my MS is still on the bench- that mod will be going in shortly. :bigtu:

Now that the problems fixed I need to get off my tail and do this as well. Should be able to tackle it this weekend. I need better idle bad.

ditto and the extra 2 - 3mpg I pickup last time I used it will go down well too :)

Could someone snap a couple of pics and post them while they are doing the "cap" mod. I will be getting my MS from braineak shortly and am considering doing this once i make sure that the ms is working correctly. I have soldiered a modchip into just about everyone of my gaming consoles including one in a brand new wii so i think i should be up for the task of soldering in one little .1uf capacitor. So the hires code really makes that much of a diff. huh? Does it add alot more time into fine tuning the fuel and timing maps?

worked a treat, top job Jerry :)

I very occasionally had the same miss when running the stock code, and it's completely killed the lot.

I love it when such a cheap component makes such a big difference :)

Pin 11 and ground, it's pretty obvious when you look at the board. Pin11 will already have a lead jumpered off it, there's a ground parked near to the proto area. don't forget to insulate the bare ends of the leads, I used the insulation for telephone wire, perfect thickness.

no, doesn't work like that, it adds more resolution into the timing of the injectors, so instead of it being for example 2.1ms it'll be 2.134ms.

yes that small difference is huge if you have big high impedance injectors

so JS8 and ground, put the cap? that's it?

no Pin11 off the CPU, before the resistor, not after. JS8 is an output for CAN?

obviously neg of the cap goes to ground ;)

Oh ok. When i heard hires i figured it changed the size and number of cell in the fuel and timing tables.

JS8 goes straight up to pin 11 correct?

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/v3pcb_1.gif

On a 3.0 PCB, yes:

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9624/mscpuuc6.gif

I'm thinking to be slick, just lay the cap between pins 11 and 20.

19 looks like the ground to me in that pic.

-Mike

did not know that, I guess you can use JS8 then.

This is where my flakey electronics knowledge comes to the fore, how can an output for CAN (on the MS2, which uses the same socket as the MS1) also be the input for a cam trigger?

fecking confuses me!

The CAN chip is only there on an MS-II daughter card; it took over an output that the MS-I's base code did not use. MS-Is (including the MSPNP) have no CAN capability.

JS8 is what I'm using-- goes straight to pin11 in the proper location for the cap. Don't go higher than .1uf without proper testing, you could filter out the 2nd trigger altogether...


Guys-- this was the entire holdup on the MM9697. Some of he earlier cars have an occassional hiccup and some never even have that, but the 96-97 cars, about half of them at least, are nasty without this low pass filter cap (really it's a two piece filter circuit, but the resistor was already in circuit).

I spent days on the dyno with the scope ;). Fun stuff, but I was ready for it to be over... I'm SO glad it's nailed...

because the MSII board is different, see the notes below the diagram.

JS8 is our tach input on the MSI CPU.

think I geddit now.... cheers Jerry

Legend :bowdown:

I'm SO glad you nailed it, I wouldn't have had a clue how to figure that sucker out.

and now I have a completely missfire free car it's bliss :)

Would've been easier to solder the leg to JS8 too...... nevermind!

I realise that the boards are different, but I was confused as they use the exact same socket.

Matt was a big help in the process, as was James and even Bruce Bowling was brought in for his input along the way. It was an international effort ;).

And a great one at that. I was having the occasional misfire and this fix solved it for me too.

So...could we bring in our existing MSPNPs for you guys to do this mod, so we can run high-res? ...don't want to "void the warranty" (I'd pay the shop charges, of course)

On the earlier models if you're not seeing the miss with the standard code it's pretty likely you won't with hi-res, but we are more than happy to fit the cap for you at no charge. I don't think everyone will care to, and don't think it's really needed unless you're seeing an issue as it's the 96-97's that really had a problem here, and to a much smaller extent some of the earlier cars. As I said though we're happy to fit it for you at no charge. All new units going forward are going to have this in place, we're changing the spec right now.

You truly are a business for the people ;) Hopefully I can give HighRes a try sometime in the nearish future.

So just to clarify, by adding this capacitor, there would still be a benefit for the non-PNP megasquirt guys running the standard code (assuming they get the random miss)?

yes, I'm DIY MS and it's helped immeasurably. The Highres code is now usable again :)

yay, if i only had a car to test this with.

Going to try on Brad's as he has a mis in boost that didnt go away with cops.

My car is running sweet now on HR10d2. Thanks to the international effort! :bigtu:

Are you guys running unchanged maps with hi-res without any issues? Just easytherming hi-res, flashing, loading your old map untouched (maybe changing those 2 or 3 .01 values to .1 so as to get rid of the warning flagged in audit.log) and then you're all good?

Just curious on your results here...

Richy said he was able to lean his idle out substantially, dropping VE values like 10-15 to get closer to 14:1 with 550 high-z injectors.
I hope to do the same as well.

Any chance you'd feel like doing a write-up / how-to for those less electronically inclined? I can solder well, but I'm "slow" when reading wiring diagrams, etc - a few pics would go a long way. I'm not concerned about warranties - if I f'it up, I'm willing to shell out or beg for help to get the MSPNP fixed. ;)

Cheers!

Jeff

If you don't have a 96-97 you might not even need the capacitor. Try it without it first to see if you're having problems without it. Then go and void your warranty.

Uhm, yeah. Pin 19 it is.

I wish I could claim that I was too drunk to see striaght when I wrote that, but I just wasn't paying attention...