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Old 01-16-2009, 10:24 AM   #1
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Default how to tune spark at low-load and EGT tuning

I searched and searched, don't bitch unless you can find the link.

I just got my car back from tuning, and well, I'm a bitch and a little nervous about the turbo and manifold glowing all the time. After I run the car moderately hard, the turbo and manifold will glow for at least 15-minutes (I got tired of waiting in the cold to go further) at idle. There is a ton of exhaust pressure through the pipe at idle, and I can advance spark quite a bit with the car still idling fine and the exhaust turbulence noise and pressure drop significantly.

So what should I do aside from installing the Greddy EGT I have in the trunk make sure everything is safe?

Is there a general how-to on spark tuning at cruise without EGT? Once I install the EGT, what are my target temps, or do I just look for the EGT drop-off? I really want to log EGT and compare it to spark-angle in megatune...that would be cool.

Thanks
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:51 AM   #2
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You're manifold is glowing just from driving around out of boost? If that's the case, something is plugged up.
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:54 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
You're manifold is glowing just from driving around out of boost? If that's the case, something is plugged up.
I drove the car hard for a while, drove about 3-miles back to the hotel, popped the hood and the turbo was beat red for another 15-minutes until I just turned it off. It was dark out too, so take that into consideration before you scare me. Will the ceramic coating hold heat in, that long or cause more glowing. Regardless of the inference, I know the right answer is to hook-up the EGT.

I'm about to drive the car from Austin to Houston, to Dallas, then back to Austin, so I'm going to fix this today.
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:00 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I drove the car hard for a while, drove about 3-miles back to the hotel, popped the hood and the turbo was beat red for another 15-minutes until I just turned it off. It was dark out too, so take that into consideration before you scare me. Will the ceramic coating hold heat in, that long or cause more glowing. Regardless of the inference, I know the right answer is to hook-up the EGT.
I suggest:

1) Take it easy on the car until you...
2) Install the EGT

Turbos do tend to glow after hard use, but it'd be good to have hard EGT data so you can know that everything is ok.

If temps are within reason but you find you want to end the glowing, send the manifold and hot side off to jet hot for some jet hot 2000 coating action. It's probably way cheaper than you think and, especially if you also do the downpipe, the difference in underhood temps will be incredible.
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:04 AM   #5
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go to the timing thread and realize you aren't running ~40 degrees of advance at light cruise and then come back and tell us why not.
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deliverator View Post
I suggest:

1) Take it easy on the car until you...
2) Install the EGT

Turbos do tend to glow after hard use, but it'd be good to have hard EGT data so you can know that everything is ok.

If temps are within reason but you find you want to end the glowing, send the manifold and hot side off to jet hot for some jet hot 2000 coating action. It's probably way cheaper than you think and, especially if you also do the downpipe, the difference in underhood temps will be incredible.
I already got dem ceramic coatings, son:

The heat shielding over the turbine housing was hot but didn't burn my fingers....I wonder if that has anything to do with the glowing. I doubt begi would give it back to me with potential drama like this, but I want to be certain so I can sleep tonight...with lots of women at the same time.
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:08 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
go to the timing thread and realize you aren't running ~40 degrees of advance at light cruise and then come back and tell us why not.
because I just cut a check (very reasonable price though) for someone to tune this **** so I wouldn't have to because I'm too busy. I don't remember the cruise values, so I'll have to check those later today.
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Old 01-16-2009, 12:03 PM   #8
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if they built and tuned it, then they had better fix it if it breaks because of a tuning problem. Not saying there is a problem, but it would make me feel better about my car.
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Old 01-16-2009, 12:14 PM   #9
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Fail. Post your spark map.
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Old 01-16-2009, 12:21 PM   #10
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Fail. Post your spark map.
I will when I get home after a 1/3rd day at work, lol.
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:18 PM   #11
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edit: my gauge is whacked out and reading incorrectly:

perfect AFR from Tim at BEGi (the enchanter?)

why would they put afr's at 10.0:1?

and here is the spark table after I switched the idle cells from 13 to 17, and there is now much less exhaust pressure:

Last edited by hustler; 01-16-2009 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:38 PM   #12
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That's all weird. You need to figure out if your wideband is right. And why is boost constantly changing? It should be flat. Your spark map is kinda weird. Not optimal. And why only 200hp?
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
That's all weird. You need to figure out if your wideband is right. And why is boost constantly changing? It should be flat. Your spark map is kinda weird. Not optimal. And why only 200hp?
I "ran out of fuel" for some reason, with 550cc injectors. I think the fuel pump is dieing, so I bought another. I'm going to throw it on this weekend and see what I have after that...then buy an aeromotive regulator if it won't hold the pressure. Tim said it was creeping up a couple psi, which I'm not really concerned with because I have more than enough motor to give a **** about 2psi of overboost.

I don't know what to do about the MAP signal, I'm already T'd off the FPR vac hose, maybe I need the filter.


Please be more specific on the spark map.
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:56 PM   #14
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About the glowing manifold, it doesn't take much to make cast iron glow. Here's a chart:
Metal Temperature by Color
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:58 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by DammitBeavis View Post
About the glowing manifold, it doesn't take much to make cast iron glow. Here's a chart:
Metal Temperature by Color
i should make one of those "my 100* laser pyrometer said my turbo was 1800*!!!!" threads, lol.
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Old 01-16-2009, 06:16 PM   #16
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It's a new motor and it's breaking in. That's why it's hot and that's why it's not raping the dyno. Give it 5K miles and redyno.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:04 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
It's a new motor and it's breaking in. That's why it's hot and that's why it's not raping the dyno. Give it 5K miles and redyno.
oh, duh...my machinist told me to expect 20% more after a few thousand miles.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
edit: my gauge is whacked out and reading incorrectly:

perfect AFR from Tim at BEGi (the enchanter?)
I would take one look at that boost curve and tell the tuner he wasn't done. That's bullshit. It's not a damn Whipple.

edit: When was the last time you calibrated the LC-1?

Last edited by Savington; 01-17-2009 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:55 PM   #19
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For you EGTs Hustler:

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t29678/#post345982

Able to log in megatune, i would sell your gauge and do what savington and i plan to do. You will probably end up with extra money after the sale of the gauge as well.
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Old 01-17-2009, 08:44 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I would take one look at that boost curve and tell the tuner he wasn't done. That's bullshit. It's not a damn Whipple.

edit: When was the last time you calibrated the LC-1?
i think overboost is going to stay no matter what i do unless i get an external gate. Something is not right with the lc-1, I calibrated yesterday and its still jacked. Back to square one, and I'm going to run the gauge lead on the other side of the car.

It did really well on the way to Houston last night. It walked a new mustang gt from 80mph to 130mph by a hair, and it pulled a 350z 4-times in 5th gear...the guy asked if it was an automtic, lol.

Now I'm done driving like a child and will get this car ready for track pillaging. When do you think the cops will ship?
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