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Old 04-22-2008, 03:41 PM   #1
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Default I broke my Megasquirt cherry

Well, I got the MS yesterday all the way from Scotland from a seller on CR.net who changed plans, and by about 10pm I had it installed and on the road! Very exciting stuff I tell ya.

The worst part was my nerves because I didn't want to screw up the software install, or fry the coilpacks, but I downloaded & installed the current versions of software from the megasquirtpnp site, ran he vaccum line and installed the ecu, DISCONNECTED THE COILS, flashed the firmware (felt like it took forever ), downloaded the base map, and started the car. Uh actually the car didn't start. I'm telling you, I was nervous as crap since this was uncharted territory for me, and I forgot to reconnect the coil pack connector . So I reconnected it, and when I turned the key on I heard a sharp SNAP. Oh ****. I thought I fried something, but when I turned the key, it started up like a champ. Maybe the coils fired the uburned fuel from the previous start attempt? I don't know.

Setting the timing was cake. I noticed when I revved the engine it would stumble pretty bad for a second, and then rev ok, hrmmm. Then I moved on to the TPS calibration, which again is so easy a caveman can do it, but since it was late, and I didn't want to create a racket, I drove a few blocks down the road (verrrry gently) to continue the festivities.

Next up was Idle Dashpot & Overrun Fuel Cut settings. By now I was feeling like a pro. So with all that behind me, I took my maiden voyage, and it was honestly allot better than I thought it'd be. I think if I let another Miata owner drive the car, and didn't tell him, he'd have no idea it was running on anything other than the stock ECU.

I noticed some pinging when turning corners at low speed in 2nd gear, and it took me a little while to realize I had 89 (or was it 87) octane in the car. Luckily I was down around 1/4 tank, so I filled it up with Sunoco 93, which took care of that problem. I was worried that the car might have trouble starting after turning it off to gas it up, but it started right up.

So that's where I'm at. Next step is to get the wideband bung welded in to my header, install the LC1 & XD16, and spend some quality time getting to know Megatune and Megalog Viewer. And I'm going to re-read all the MS related threads here on the forum that I already read and forgot. Now that it's actually installed, and I've started to play with the software, the posts are allot more meaningfull.

QUESTIONS:
  1. Is there any downside to temporarily using my LC1 in place of the stock o2 sensor, feeding the NB output into the stock o2 harness, and the WB into the MS? I'm not going to have any time for the next week or so to get the bung welded in. Remember, the car is still stock other than an intake / header / exhaust.
  2. Is the VE analyzer in MLV of any use with the narrowband? I used it to analyze both my logs, and it proposes changes to most of the cells.
  3. I've attached the logs. I'd appreciate any input, and warnings if anything looks out of the ordinary.
  4. What would you guys suggest is the most important next step or two?
CLIFF NOTES:
MS installation is easy as long as you take your time, and follow the directions!


And finally -

BIG THANKS TO ALL YOU GUYS HERE! I definitely had a leg up on this install from hanging out here for the last few months.
Attached Files
File Type: zip MS_logs.zip (196.8 KB, 37 views)
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Old 04-22-2008, 03:47 PM   #2
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Congrats! The first startup is always nerve-wracking. In my case, I had the two ignition wires reversed *and* forgot to configure both INJ channels to quirt during cranking. Made for some very interesting head-scratching.

1- Is there a reason you need the NB output at all? it doesn't sound like you've done a parallel install, and the MS itself does not need an NB signal.

2- I've never tried it, but it should be fine in the non-boosted areas assuming you're tuning for exactly stoich.

3- An MSQ file would also be helpful. Any specific problems we're supposed to look for?

4- Turbo.
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Old 04-22-2008, 03:47 PM   #3
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Everyone else will disagree, but I have been running my LC-1 in the stock O2 sensor location with no heatsink and I've had no issues with it.

Having said, that, I'd wait, because you don't have a turbo to capture any heat from the exhaust.
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Old 04-22-2008, 03:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscar View Post

I noticed some pinging when turning corners at low speed in 2nd gear, and it took me a little while to realize I had 89 (or was it 87) octane in the car. Luckily I was down around 1/4 tank, so I filled it up with Sunoco 93, which took care of that problem. I was worried that the car might have trouble starting after turning it off to gas it up, but it started right up.
This is weird. I have run my car on 87 octane with no knock or pinging. Either that or my ears are lying.
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
1- Is there a reason you need the NB output at all? it doesn't sound like you've done a parallel install, and the MS itself does not need an NB signal.

2- I've never tried it, but it should be fine in the non-boosted areas assuming you're tuning for exactly stoich.

3- An MSQ file would also be helpful. Any specific problems we're supposed to look for?

4- Turbo.
  1. Running MSPNP, not parallel. Why doesn't the MS need the stock o2? If you're saying I don't need the NB at all if I use the WB it'd certainly make things easier.
  2. Ok, I'll wait for others to chime in. At this point I'm just tuning for stock-like (safe) performance.
  3. MSQ attached. It's just the base one, with my TPS, overrun & dashpot calibrations.
  4. Turbo is on the way (used FM 2560 setup), but I've got more to do on the car before it gets installed.

C
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pipefather View Post
This is weird. I have run my car on 87 octane with no knock or pinging. Either that or my ears are lying.
No doubt about it, it was knock. With the price of gas these days, I hope I can make a low octane map to keep on hand.

C
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscar View Post
1- Running MSPNP, not parallel. Why doesn't the MS need the stock o2? If you're saying I don't need the NB at all if I use the WB it'd certainly make things easier.
Nope. MS will be happiest with just the wideband signal only. And while it's not going to be immediately annihilated in the next day or two by being mounted in the stock location, the manufacturers do recommend locating further downstream. Once you go Standalone, the only use for the NB sensor is to fill the hole in the downpipe.

Forgive me if you've already posted details elsewhere, but what does the rest of your setup look like? ie: what size injectors, er... I guess for an N/A car that's really just about all.
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:16 PM   #8
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Reading
Is
Fundamental

Thanks for the heads-up Joe P.

http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/models/mm9495/mspnp_mm9495_manual/mspnp_mm9495_manual.htm
Quote:
There are two ways of connecting the signal wire from your wideband controller to the MSPNP. You can either connect the analog output to pin 10 of the MSPNP center connector, or you can cut and splice the oxygen sensor signal wire to the analog output. If you use pin 10 for wideband input, you must disconnect the stock oxygen sensor. Do not ground the oxygen sensor wire if you disconnect it; leave it completely unconnected and taped off if necessary (make sure it canít short to ground or anything else).
C
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:19 PM   #9
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Pull the NB, replace with the WB. Config MS for WB. WB signal can run on the stock NB input wire or into pin 10 on the PNP center connector.

**** stock like. Make it better than stock. Pull the MAF and flash the HiRez code in that bitch. Use MLV's VE Analyzer to get your VE table mostly hammered out. Be sure you change the table from AFR BINS1 to DEFAULT AFR so you get a 12x12 target table. Set it for 13.3 in your idle zones, 14.7:1 in low speed, light load, 17:1 in all cruise areas, and 12:1 in n/a "high load" areas.

Oh, and by the way (see #8)
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12239


Once you're fairly comfortable with your VE table, you'll want to pull enrichment from your coolant related density table. Otherwise you'll always idle rich as *****.
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Nope. MS will be happiest with just the wideband signal only. And while it's not going to be immediately annihilated in the next day or two by being mounted in the stock location, the manufacturers do recommend locating further downstream. Once you go Standalone, the only use for the NB sensor is to fill the hole in the downpipe.

Forgive me if you've already posted details elsewhere, but what does the rest of your setup look like? ie: what size injectors, er... I guess for an N/A car that's really just about all.
Stock injectors, JR 4-1 header, JR CAI, JR 2.5" exhaust. The owner previous to the guy I bought the car from spent allot of money on it, and probably added a whopping 5whp. Oh, and a JR fuel pump. Someone drank the Kool-Aid.

I just measured it, and the 02 sensor is 17" from the head, and in the #4 runner. I don't think it's in any danger of cooking all the way down there.

C
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:33 PM   #11
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you should be ok even at stock NB location without the heat of the almighty turbo...
congrats, i still can't wait to catch up and install my damn MS already
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Pull the NB, replace with the WB. Config MS for WB. WB signal can run on the stock NB input wire or into pin 10 on the PNP center connector.
Great stuff. I'll patch it into the stock harness for now, that makes life super easy.

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**** stock like. Make it better than stock.
Ever see the movie What about Bob? Baby steps, it's all about baby steps. I feel allot safer going down the path little by little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Pull the MAF and flash the HiRez code in that bitch.
I have the GM IAT, just need to patch it in when I get the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Use MLV's VE Analyzer to get your VE table mostly hammered out.
So you're a fan of the VE analyzer? I did a cursory 5 minute search here last night and only found a few posts relating to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Be sure you change the table from AFR BINS1 to DEFAULT AFR so you get a 12x12 target table. Set it for 13.3 in your idle zones, 14.7:1 in low speed, light load, 17:1 in all cruise areas, and 12:1 in n/a "high load" areas.
Holy crap, that's allot to swallow. Ok, ok, I'll do it. I'm going on vacation for a few days on Friday. I'll bring my laptop and read the whole damn MS manual. I promise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Yeah, yeah, I beat you to it.

Quote:
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Once you're fairly comfortable with your VE table, you'll want to pull enrichment from your coolant related density table. Otherwise you'll always idle rich as *****.
Cool - thanks for all the suggestions.

C
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Old 04-22-2008, 04:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscar View Post
Ever see the movie What about Bob? Baby steps, it's all about baby steps. I feel allot safer going down the path little by little.

I have the GM IAT, just need to patch it in when I get the time
Sorry dude, forget the baby steps this time. Time to go in head first.
There's simply no reason to tune it now, just to retune it later. Install the sensor, pull the MAF, flash HR, and be happy. Plus you'll be amazed at how much better the car runs on HR.
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Old 04-22-2008, 05:17 PM   #14
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So you're a fan of the VE analyzer? I did a cursory 5 minute search here last night and only found a few posts relating to it.
The VE analyzer is our friend. Much better than the so-called AutoTune function. You gotta keep an eyeball on it and hand-smooth the table every now and then, but in general it's what most of us use for our fuel tuning. I still haven't dyno'ed my car, but by using MLV VE for several weeks, my fuel table is pretty darn good.
Quote:
Holy crap, that's allot to swallow. Ok, ok, I'll do it. I'm going on vacation for a few days on Friday. I'll bring my laptop and read the whole damn MS manual. I promise.
Switching the AFR target table from volts to AFR is non-intuitive if you've never done it before. You have to hand-edit the MSQ file and an INI file. This thread goes into it:https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...=msq+afr+volts
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Old 04-22-2008, 05:21 PM   #15
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The PNP's code shows AFR for the Innovate WB by default.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:01 PM   #16
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Awesome man, I thought you were going with a Begi S3 though?
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:06 PM   #17
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I got a screamin' deal on a 6 month old FM setup.

C
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:18 PM   #18
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well more power to you then!
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Old 03-17-2009, 06:27 PM   #19
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Fast forward 11 months.

OK, this is sad - I had to come back to this thread because I've forgotten everything I know about MS.

My LC1 was giving me problems, so I took the MS out after a few days, and ran with the stock ecu until I parked the car for the winter. I'm just wrapping up my turbo install, and need to read this thread to jog my memory on how to use the damn thing!

C
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