I seriously hate this fucking car
 

put my mspnp in this morning and for the life of me cannot get the fucking timing anywhere near 10 degrees, it was set at 6 before i put in the megasquirt. Now i'm out there fucking with the timing for an hour and now my tach does not work. the closest i can get the timing mark is on the other side.

your not touching the CAS and just changing the angle in megatune right?

i did both

and you set MS to a static timing yes?

yeah it came programmed to 10

In MegaTune>Spark>spark settings

the fixed angle should be set as 10 and NOT -10 which I suspect it currently is.

-10 means it uses the spark tables, and other figure without the '-' means use that figure as the static timing.

i will check that when my laptop is charged up, you may be right. any idea on why my tach is dead?

Considering that comment I now know i'm right. RTFM dude...

As for the tach, probably a fuse

Follow the timing set procedure EXACTLY per the manual. :gay:

The motor does start and run, right?

yeah it runs

ok i fixed the timing, i was being dumb and didn't notice the "-" in front of the 10, change it to straight 10 and set my timing, idles great now. Tried to take it for a slow spin around the block, as soon as i give it even the slightest amount of gas it stumbles and almost dies. gotta sort that out.

probably need to give it the correct REQ FUEL number for your largers injectors...

Yep-- the manual covers scaling the map for different sized injectors as well. You'll need to change REQ_FUEL, but also your cranking pulsewidths and lastly your acceleration enrichments which are static PW settings and with 50% larger injectors spraying about 50% more fuel than needed when you tip in... meaning you'll fall on your face when you get into the throttle.

BTW-- I've made a couple improvements to the base map as well that I can share. Shoot me an email and I'll send it to you when I'm back in the office. I'm going to post them up for download as well...

so basically before you start hating on your car RTFM!!! ;)

i did read the manual, i missed one thing, i did set the reqired fuel to 8.7 which should be close enough for my 305cc supra injectors. idle is perfect, i just need to set adjust the fuel and timing tables. how much do i need to mess with cranking pw if it starts just fine?

if it starts fine as in like stock your cranking PW is perfect, no messing

Cranking PW can be somewhat tolerant to change... or it can be a pain in the butt... if it's fine at a dead cold start, and at a hot start, and 'warm starts' in between, then it's fine to leave it alone.

You probably will want to adjust AE though... that's how much extra fuel is squirted at tip-in throttle and it's pretty touchy to being way off.

im not sure what's going on with this thing, as soon as rpms go to ~2500 the thing dies and injector pulse width goes to 0.0, rpms drop

I have a MSQ with 305s that I used, might want to steal the fuel table and some of the settings from that....not sure if that was before or after the lc-1 crapped out on me....(see settings thread)

i tried that one, doesn't matter whose map i use, they all crap out in that rpm range and pw1 goes to 0.0

also my tach still doesn't work, all fuses are ok, i'm wondering if something like the ingitor is broken

sounds like it was wired wrong if it runs the ignitor still works do you get rpm on the MS most likely the rpm feed from the ignitor has been stopped on its way to the tach with there mods the question is where?

it's the mspnp unit, i didn't touch any wiring. megatune on my laptop shows the correct rpm

ok it seems the car will run and drive somewhat normal before it's warmed up. I put my maf back on, plugged the stock ecu in, put the st sign fuse back in(what's that for anyway?)....car won't run, starts and runs for a second and dies, never did this before. This leads me to believe something broke, but what can it be?
cas?
ignitor?
coils?

Every single unit is being tested on our car so I know with 100% certainty the MSPNP worked perfectly when it shipped. We actually run a car on each and every one of them. Rev it, idle it, test PWM idle control on it, test fan control on it, etc.

Let's get a bit of history here... I'm about to throw a few questions at you so it may be best to copy the post and answer them one at a time so they're not missed as I know that's easy to do...

I saw your old mod-list in your sig included an emanage, autotune, and some other items... what's the current state of those mods? Were they removed or are they still in place?

You mentioned you've used other maps other than the base map provided with the MSPNP, do you have a copy of all of their spark settings pages? There are alot of potential issues using other maps if you don't know what you're looking for... like are they setup to properly control you cooling fans? Or you idle valve? That's assuming the most important thing, the ignition settings, are safe to use.

When you were first struggling to set the timing without setting it to 10 degrees in MegaTune first, you spent a fair amount of time in the spark settings screen. There are alot of settings on this screen. Did you change any of the other settings?

Can you post a screenshot of your current spark settings page?


Help me out with this info and I'll try and help you get to the bottom of this quickly and get you up and running...

well when i first put the mspnp in the tach worked fine, once i figured out the timing i drove it and got gas in the car since it was almost empty, didn't drive perfect but got there and back, tach was acting pretty erratic when i got back jumping and eventually went to zero and hasn't moved since. i tried scotts map which i linked, i changed the setting for wideband to narrowband and all the other settings in that window to what came with the base maps

edit: i can't link the map but it's in the settings thread

asked in the other thread, the car doesn't just lose power it almost stalls, megatune on my laptop shows the pw1 zero out 0.0 for a second then the rpms drop, it's almost like hitting a rev limit or something, but the rpm isn't the same every time but it's close

also all the emange stuff has been removed, including the begi afpr basically a stock fuel sysetm except the 305cc injectors and walbro 190hp pump.

Thanks for the info man-- I found your problem. Your ignitor is dead.

Background info... during development of the MSPNP MM9093 we toasted a couple of ignitors testing different settings. There are basically two ways to do it... If Spark Output inverted is set to Yes, it won't last long at all, it must be set to No. It will last maybe a minute if the car is parked with the key on, it will last a bit longer if you're driving the car as it won't be switched on constantly. The second way is to have too much dwell time.

The symptoms we saw when both ignitors died is the tach stopped functioning first, and the car kept running, then shortly thereafter the car died completely. Both times, same symptoms.

Our base map has both of these settings correct based on all of the testing we did. I just downloaded Scott's map from the Settings thread... first thing I checked was the Spark Output setting. It's set to Yes. That's what burned your ignitor.

They're really expensive at the dealer... you don't need a new one though as they almost never fail unless something like this happens. Call RSpeed, they sold them to us for $40. If they don't have them let me know and I'll see if I can refer you to someone else that might. MazMart might, or I also know a local guy that parts out Miatas that may be able to help. They're super easy to replace....

Jerry, you go above and beyond helping us fools trying MS our Miatas. I just hope I don't get to experience your troubleshooting first-hand ;)

thankyou for confirming that jerry, that was my suspicion because i read somewhere the ignitor has an output that drive the tach but i couldn't find a way to test it, i did remove and clean the contacts but that didn't help, they were clean anyway. now i gotta hunt down and ignitor. thanks again man

this is funny, because I had the same problem back in the day. tach stopped working but the ignitor never died because I kept driving the car for months fine otherwise. I blew the motor and the car sat for a while. Now I put back in a new motor and the car is running on the stock ecu for now and miraculously the tach is working again. I didnt change any wiring, on the harness, just plugged in the stock ecu again.

I would firmly place my money on bad grounds in hindsight.

home come ive been running on inverted spark this whole time without a problem? i believe Al and others have too.....

That would be the question of the hour... as best as I can tell there is only one part# for the 90-93 ignitor, and it definitely needs Spark Output Inverted set to No in every situation I've seen and I've seen several now. I can now confirm the 94-95 cars are the same as well based on my 95 M Series car.

My assumption was that map posted in the settings thread somehow got changed and wasn't really what you were running... or that you were running non-stock ignitors such as VB921's... or one other possibility I thought of is maybe you had some sort of piggyback or other device in the mix that intercepted the signals to the ignitor, and that device was effectively reversing the polarity of this incorrect setting... Those are the possible scenarios I thought of.

Other than that it's hard to imagine not having issues, and quickly.

Here's another possibility... how is your board modded? Our mods or Kags mods? That shouldn't effect what the ignitor needs but I'm trying to factor in everything here...

Brain's is using Kag's ign mods because we have so far been unable to get yours to function on multiple builds.

When my tach began working the only things new that had changed were that I took off the lc1 and also had a new driver side engine ground. The tach didnt work with the stock ecu before the motor swap after installing the MS. I still firmly believe he has a grounding issue and it is affecting the signal.

There's got to be more to this story too... again, one part number for the ignitor and another single part number for the CAS. The mods on my site should work 100% of the time, and they have worked 100% of the time I've used them on seven different cars. There just has to be something else going on there...

I know what it is we suck at this but it will get better i hope. That was an interesting point before Jerry, Scot do you still have your bipes in place? Even in non working form?

I have been running on Inverted Spark for about 8 months now, no problems.

I did blow a ignitor on my first install attempt, I chalked it up to installer error. Its been fine since I installed Kingsof337's PnP. Will it hurt anything to switch it to "NO"?

Also, I used the Kags board mods

BTW- I got an ignitor from Planet Miata for like $40, works like a champ.

FYI-- just changing this setting will effect your timing, so if you do change it you'd need to reset your base timing.

As for exactly what's going on I'd have to analyze Kag's mods and try and figure out why you're not blowing things up as it seems all of you running inverted spark are running his mods.

Bottom line... map sharing while being a great tool can also be dangerous if you don't watch out for the key settings. If you are just after someones VE and Spark tables it's no problem to export those into .VEX files and import them into our base map overwriting what we had there, and leaving all the base settings intact. That still wouldn't change things like REQ_FUEL/Cranking PW/and AE, but the manual covers this, it's really easy to scale these for different sized injectors. Other things like PWM Idle control are going to be all screwed up most likely with another map as alot of work has gone into getting those pretty close to right on, and part of that is tied to our hardware (meaning even if the other map was right on it's hardware, most likely the TIP122 mod, that's not going to work right on the MSPNP using the V3SMT board with a much improved PWM Idle trany). Other little things like coolant fan control, and in our new map that's about to be released the base settings for boost control would be lost as well. People can do what they want, and I know they will... but there's alot of work that's gone into these maps and there would be alot of value in using them on your MSPNP. They're not perfect in every aspect, cold AE needs a bit of work still and will get it, but they're really good overall. And pretty soon I'll get the chance to touch up Ben's turbo map and make it available as well. That's coming... It still won't be a drop and go affair-- you simply must tune ANY standalone EMS for your car... drop and go with someone else's map, especially on a turbo car... and go ahead and start building your next engine. ;) The goal will be to give you something that needs minimal tuning-- save you as much money as possible, etc. If you're running a similar setup the timing map will likely be spot on... the fuel map will probably be different and must be tuned. That can best be done on the dyno, or very carefully on a private stretch of road with a co-pilot. It will probably never be 'as good' as if it were dyno tuned... but it coul be what most would consider 'close enough'.

This is so exciting by the time I am ready to buy one of these this winter everyone will have so much knowledge about everything that even a dummy like me will be able to use one of these ;)

I hope by the time my injectors arrive!

exactly why i told phil to steal my fuel tables and what-not and not burn the MSQ....

Jerry, if you want to see how my board is modded....see here:

https://www.miataturbo.net/braineack/MS/EBC/EBC009.jpg
https://www.miataturbo.net/braineack/MS/boardfront.jpg

I've been inverted for a little over a year now. I've got a random occasional miss, otherwise running well.

1990 miata v3 29v, trigger input mods are:

Q6 and Q8 removed
C12 and C30 removed
D1 removed and replaced with a jumper
Backside mods from http://www.diyautotune.com/images/ca...input-mods.jpg

Output mods are:r26 top to IAC2a and r29 to IAC1b

Again, that appears to be Kag's mods...

loaded basemap and changed required fuel so the car would idle, installed new ignitor, car fired up, tach now works again. Drive the car around the block seems great. THEN as soon as water temp hits 160 the same bullshit all over again, car sucks. I seriously don't think i could have possibly done anything wrong here.

zip your MSQ file and upload it....its gotta be a setting somewhere...

acutally, is your over boost protection on? maybe set to 1.5psi?

coolant related hmm are you pulling timming related to temp?

i've never even gotten into boost

map

change your Over Run fuel cut to be under 23 kPa....betcha that's it.

as of now anything over 160* & 2000RPM, and under 9psi will cut fuel

i think you might be onto something there scott, i'll definitely change that tomorrow. god i hope that works.

Good catch Scott-- that is almost definitely what's going on here. I just checked one of our base maps and sure enough it had 170kpa in the overrun settings, which definitely wasn't in there before when we set it up originally. Not sure how that happened but I'll fix it, check the others, and repost them now. My apologies!


EDIT: Just checked the maps and just the 'no afm' map had the wacky setting. The 'with afm' map was set at 17kpa which is fine on our car, though I set them both to 20kpa which will allow some tolerance in case some cars don't get quite as much vacuum on decel. This of course could need to be tuned if 20kpa still wasn't high enough to activate overrun, but will definitely prevent activation when it shouldn't happen, unless somehow you cruise at 20kpa. The thread at https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=10267 has links to the updated maps...

damn 20-1 below 9 psi that is some gas mileage :rofl:

??

well it's more like a fuel cut :gay: so that's why he was stalling out.

It was a joke Jerry :p BTW Inovative might still be evil but atleast mine is working for me now :cool:

Just finished my coffee... oh I get it! ;)

That's great news on your LC-1...

While we're in the joking mood-- with overrun set to activate below 170kpa while above 160degrees you just need to make sure you're staying in the boost once the engine warms up. Never let it get under about 10psi and you'll be fine ;). Flat shift will help with that, and by the way works nicely with the MSPNP-- I've been playing with it lately. You do need a strong clutch though...

thank god, the car actually runs now!!! still needs much tuning, i'm running the narrowband for now and it runs really lean in most cruise situations, 18:1 to 23:1. in light boost it safely goes rich feels slow but i'm running no helper spring and no boost controller for now. but the car is now driveable now that i can go over 2000rpm and keep it under 10psi:gay:

nice.

fuck ya man! i was worried you would give up when you were so damn close