idel is ruogh, plugs are black
 

THe plugs tell me im running very rich, and the idel is very rough, maybe I foued the plugs? Im using DIY autotunes PMP after start enrich charts, and I have 305cc injectors. What should I do to get it idleing smooth?

Did you set the req fuel for your injectors? Why don't you have a wideband O2?

well first of all did you reconfigure your REQ fuel?

edit: beaten like a red headed step child. Gotta refresh more.

req fuel is set, 1600cc car, 305cc injector, 14.7 to one. I have a wideand and it says around 15 to one.. nd it wont idel well at all.

You need to add fuel in your fuel map in the idle cells. Tune it so your wideband reads closer to 14:1.

Change your plugs.

If you are using the PNP map you should have used 13.1 for your AFR in REQ Fuel. Thats what DIYAutotune uses for their map.

+1

ok, I loaded in the whole DIY autotunes Megatunes settings, and set the req fuel like you said. It still runs like shit, barley idles, if at all. the plugs got black again quick, and smell of gas. The oil looks fine, everything looks fine. im at a loss of what to do..

remove fuel from the ve table. :confused:

well I drained the oil.. and when it was all in a bucket it def smelled of gas. I must be running so rich that it is fuel washing the cylinders.. shit. hell at this point I might only be ruinning on a cylinder... i dunno. Im totally lost.. and panicing.

oh thank you god! I plugged the stock computer and AFM in and it runs like a charm.. oh man I was scared I blew the engine.. OK so its definitly something in MS.. what should I check?

looks like you need to give it less fuel. try running tuning your req fuel until it idles smoothly and then retune your ve map. try starting with 11.5-12 in req fuel and go from there. change values by .3 in either direction and see what it likes better

req fuel is 13.1 on the 9093 diy mspnp.

You should be using a PCpro if you can't handle removing fuel from your fuel table. Then again, you would still be dealing with cylinder wash with the PC if Tom tuned it anyway.

Did you figure out how to remove fuel from your VE table yet?

yes I do...
For some reason it seems like takeing fuel from the points around idle dont make a diffrence.. maybe I have to take out more? I took about 7 to 10 away from DIY autotunes map...

Your signature says you have 460cc injectors and your post said 305cc, which is it?

I find that 1 point of VE will change my A/Fs around .3 AFR on stock injectors, that amount of change will increase with the size of the injectors.

I just got the 460cc injectors, imma put them on tommorow.

Would anyone be willing to share their settings for 460cc injectors? Atleast that should get me in the ballpark.

If changing your fuel has not done much, I'd also check your timing with the MS installed since it's a new install to make sure that when MS thinks it's 10 BTDC, the engine markings say the same.

i guess i could send you my last msq. 460cc 13psi and t3. should get you close.

its on my laptop....will post laterz.

and are you burning the changes to the MS?

<ding><ding><ding> I think we may have a winner....:)

I was burning the changes. BRG, How can I check the timeing when it wont idle?

Brain- Thanks a ton!

a lot of my settings wont work on a typical install. please take heed. just export from it what you may need. or go through it with a fine tooth comb.

damn you. wasted effort! :vash:

? Im going to try and use your setup tommorow, looks like I dont need to change alot.

you never responded. i got sad.

If you're loved, you can get a friend to turn the key for you.

If you're not, pull the starter wire out of the harness in the key, and run it to +12V and touch it. That should get the starter turning.


Questions:
1)In MegaTune, when you're cranking, do you see a little green "Synced" in the bottom right? If not, the MS doens't know your engine is running.

2) Are you sure you have coil A where A goes and B where B goes?

3) Do you get ANY spark at all? Try pulling the plugs out of the motor, laying them on the valve cover. Clip them to the valve cover bolts as a good ground and plug them into the cables. Do you see a spark? You can use "output test mode" to check this.

If you're not sure you're firing, you're going to have issues. If you're not firing at the right time, you're also going to have issues.

Check the basics or you'll waste a lot of time running around checking weird theories - you shouldn't have to drain your oil to get a computer running. :-)

Anyway, my car sparks when cranking, though I have to go a revolution or two to get sync, I DO get spark and can set timing if I run the starter for 2-5 seconds, longer to get a good reading.

Thanks abe but heres an update




BRAIN - I put the 460ccs in and ran your maps. Did the SAME THING! I know its getting spark, because it runs, but it barley idels and runs very rugh (chug chug chug chug). I know it is running SUPER rich, I can even smell the gas.

I lowered the points on the VE table by 18, dident change (yes I burned it). I re did the rq fuel, changing the A/F up and down... no change. I lowered the warmup enrich.. no change.

The wireing harness looks good. I cut the wires you are supposed to cut going to the ECU, and everything is wired right


I have come to the conclution that I must have messed up something inside the MS. My only question is what could it be?

And yes, the car runs fine with the stock ECU (it is not an engine problem)

using the same AIT corrections and warmup settings as my map, same req fuel? changed dwell back up?


acutally sounds like you're not controlling the fuel. you cut the wires for triggers and injectors to the ecu right?

Brain, yes. At first I forgot the dwell, then when I changed it it seemed to idle slightly better.. but everything you listed is done. Its almost like when I change the VE table it doesent even make much of a difference. Altho it will sorta idle now... kinda

question, what is the AE drivin fuel precentage? it seems to idle somewhat at first, then that meter swings to the left and the idle gets worse.

Also, my wideband says around 13 to 15 to one at idle, yet I can acually smell fuel from the exhaust (really rich). I do have a little leak before the sensor, can that change the readings?

it shouldn't.

maybe your ego is activated at idle and ruining things.

how would I change that?

should I turn off lambda sensor targets and open loop?

turn off all enrichments: EGO, AE, targets, open loop, overrun. Anything that could make an adjustment, turn it off.

i did and now it catches, but wont run. Still very rich! Man I am so lost...

I've had 2 occasions where all the settings in the msq looked right, but it tried to idle at 200rpm. I can only assume a corrupted or truncated .msq save. Load up the diy base msq with the adjusted required fuel (if not running stock injectors) and see what happens.

I've had a few problems with megatune. My idle VE values are 28-31 (can't remember where I put them last week, but they're perfect). If you're rich, lean the motherfucker out.

I still cant get it to work, so I pulled it. Ill open the MS and take pictures and maybe I screwed someting up.. ill have pics tommorow.

If it's running for a bit, and then stopping, I would highly suspect it's After Start Enrichment, and/or PWM Idle, both of those do something for a very short time after starting, then shut off, which can cause an instant change.

Also, another really basic thing: Have you checked that all four plugs are firing? This is easy to test, pull the plugs, lay them on the valve cover, plug them in and turn the motor over till it syncs. Or, just do an "output test" - though when I was having syncing issues this lead me to believe things were working when they weren't.

If you believe in "be kind to your coils week", then clip, attach, or otherwise ensure a good ground for your plugs.

But this is a good place to start, you might only be firing on one coil. Crappy, chuggy idle and rich smell is entirely consistant with a coil not working, be it hooked up wrong or just burnt out.


(I'm suggesting the oddball stuff since these other fine folks are on top of the most likely ones)

<Edit>
1) Did you check your timing?
2) Did you check for consistant sync/spark.

When mine was getting bad sync, that's exactly what it did. Fire once in a while, but not really run.

Man, I had the after start enrich set to 0, and warmup at 100% across the board, and thats the only way I could get it to sorta idle.

At those settings my wideband says 19 to 1 (!) but when I make it richer, the idle gets worse and worse. Plus even tho it says 19 to 1, it was still running pig freakin rich (plugs indicated it)


I really cant check timeing, I cant get it to idle good enough. I used brains setting, and I moved the trigger angle up and down... no change.

It is synced. when I go to tuneing - VE, it is getting a constant feed.

I just dont get it... its like the MS has the injectors flowing MAX all the time.
When I pulled all 4 plugs, all 4 were covered with carbon. If 2 plugs were fireing, those 2 would look ok. Thus I know all 4 plugs are fireing.

It would not hurt to pull the plugs and see if they are actually firing, every time. It's easy to do.

The timing should not be hard to check. It's really worth doing.

After that, I would think a stuck open injector, but I guess it doesn't fit the symptoms. Out of curiosity, what's your req fuel setting?

Maybe you have somethign weird like your opening time set to 15 ms.

if the lc-1 is reading dead lean, than means fuel is on teh sensor. What does your VE table look like in the idle cells?

Is it possible the MS thinks you atr at WOT?

Try unhooking the TPS.

Ron

Full lean is consistant with not firing one coil, or really bad timing. :-)

Did you calibrate your TPS? I always forget to do that on mine, and things get better (but not WAY better) when I do...

Ok hustler, thats why it was reading dead lean.

you know what, I dident calbrate my TPS... would that be it? I only have a manuel TPS tho, on off switch.

My VE table and rq fuel are the ones that Brain sent me for his car with 460cc injectors, it should be ballpark..

The manual TPS is useless, you can't hook it up. If you want a TPS then convert yours with the Wells part or grab the Bosch unit.

My idle was misfiring and smelt really rich, but it was actually lean as. Once I richened it up heaps the misfiring went away as did the unburnt fuel smell. Maybe this is the same as your case?

sabo, it cant, the plugs get so much carbon on them, it is running pig rich.

Here are some pictures of the bord.. anything wrong? Q14 and Q15 are removed, and R38 and 37 are jumped.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g4.../MS/ms3002.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g4.../MS/ms3001.jpg

I would still do as the guys before said start by verifying spark on all cyls.

They do run on only one coil. Belive me.

Good luck.

Håkan

Ok, I guess ill verfiy spark tommorow..

You troubleshoot slower than my grandmother.

I have school and shit (girlfriend). Plus the miata is my DD lol.

oh, meanwhile how does my bord look?

He's quicker than both of my grandmothers put together.

But they are both dead.

yar matey.

thanks brain!

Ok, im getting spark.

Maybe im not decriptive enough. When the car is on MS, I start it and ir runs while im giveing it some gas. When its running, its VERY sluggish (barely revs), smalls of gas, is running way rich, and doesent really idle.

wtf?

its gotta be your MSQ. your req fuel is 6.0? idle VE cells around 38-45?

I put my 305cc injectors back in, so I calculated the rq fuel using 13.1 a/f. My whole VE table is the one you gave me.

I am about to give up... idk what it could be.

Are you sure you use the right outputs for the right coil/ignitor? They still start when swapped.... I know this for a fact.

Good luck

Håkan

Did you check your timing?

Also, 13.1 fuel is pretty ridiculous. Calculating the fuel should be done for 14.7.

if your using my fuel map, use 14.7 for AFR. so req_fuel = 8.9