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Old 01-22-2010, 04:34 AM   #21
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Can some of you who don't have or have fixed the idle issues comment on my settings ?

I would like to fix my droopy idle issue and idle droop between shifts before I start playing with the new TS
What is this idle droop between shifts you keep banging on about?

If you're changing gear you're not idling, they're two completely different things.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:42 AM   #22
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I tried the recommended closed loop idle settings and there was no change from my PWM warmup. It still doesn't catch the load from the headlights. Anyone else have any luck?
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:12 PM   #23
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Here are the settings that I used tonight. It brought the rpms down to ~1050. I could not get it any lower than this. Another problem that I have is it seems like it takes a little while for the rpms to settle to this level if there is a vacuum event. While under normal driving it really ends up being an idle rpm of about 1200 unless you sit somewhere for about 10 sec. I'm going to try to adjust the idle rpm targets tomorrow to see what happens.

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Old 01-22-2010, 10:26 PM   #24
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Here are the settings that I used tonight. It brought the rpms down to ~1050. I could not get it any lower than this. Another problem that I have is it seems like it takes a little while for the rpms to settle to this level if there is a vacuum event. While under normal driving it really ends up being an idle rpm of about 1200 unless you sit somewhere for about 10 sec. I'm going to try to adjust the idle rpm targets tomorrow to see what happens.

Mine is still doing all kinds of wacked things with the idle too. Most of it sounds like what you experience.

I tried a bunch of settings posted here toward the bottom of the page.

Note that I have a 1.6 https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t42802-5/#post511577

I changed too many things at one time and I'm not sure what they do anyway so I think I'm going back to the settings that came in the base MSQ and start all over.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:41 PM   #25
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Go to this link 2 Idle Control

Use the settings from this screen, set frequency to 1, then scroll down to where it explains how to tune the PID. I think that this is the ticket. I'm going to tune it tomorrow.


Poobs, go edit your sig, It is nice to know where people are from, and their vehicle data without having to ask. This way when you need tuning help you can go to a person with a similar setup.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
Go to this link 2 Idle Control

Use the settings from this screen, set frequency to 1, then scroll down to where it explains how to tune the PID. I think that this is the ticket. I'm going to tune it tomorrow.


Poobs, go edit your sig, It is nice to know where people are from, and their vehicle data without having to ask. This way when you need tuning help you can go to a person with a similar setup.
Thanks !!!

You mean the settings on the closed loop settings screen - right ?

I'll try anything at this point
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:48 PM   #27
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does MSI even have the PID code for idle?
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:57 PM   #28
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I don't think so. See, If I had seen in the sig that you had MS1 I would tell you to quit chasing the PID stuff. I'm not even sure if MS1 has closed loop idle???????

I'm MS noob, and started with MS2extra and tunerstudio
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:01 PM   #29
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It does have closed loop.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:54 PM   #30
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These are the settings that I ended up with today. Idle is around 950 with no lights or ac. About 850 with ac and lights. The only I don't like is that it seems to get hung occasionally so that the idle is 1200rpm. Most of the time it is fine. 950rpm is still higher than I would like, but it is nice not to have to worry about turning on the accessories.
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:58 PM   #31
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I was able to bring my idle down from 2700 to 1800 by setting all my spark table to 10deg for everything below 35kpa.

I can't get it lower with ms, but unplugging the iac got me a rock solid and buttery smooth 775-800rpm idle. The thing is now tip in is a bit choppy from idle.

I put the timing back in leaving the iac unplugged and got a smooth idle that varies from 790-800rpm. Tip in still sucks and almost seems like the throttle lag you get with a flapper maf, ideas?
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:07 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno94 View Post
I was able to bring my idle down from 2700 to 1800 by setting all my spark table to 10deg for everything below 35kpa.

I can't get it lower with ms, but unplugging the iac got me a rock solid and buttery smooth 775-800rpm idle. The thing is now tip in is a bit choppy from idle.

I put the timing back in leaving the iac unplugged and got a smooth idle that varies from 790-800rpm. Tip in still sucks and almost seems like the throttle lag you get with a flapper maf, ideas?
Post your MSQ so we can look at it.
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:15 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Jeff_Ciesielski View Post
Post your MSQ so we can look at it.
Take a look.
Attached Files
File Type: msq 2010-01-25_12.34.24.msq (32.4 KB, 72 views)
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:37 PM   #34
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I'm having a similar problem to what Djp0623 is describing, where I can get a good idle of 850rpm, but if I go above that, it settles back to 1000rpm and takes a couple minutes to calm back down. I've found that the little valve on the throttle body that the butterfly valve presses against is sticking. Anybody know if you can lube that somehow?
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:08 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by curly View Post
I'm having a similar problem to what Djp0623 is describing, where I can get a good idle of 850rpm, but if I go above that, it settles back to 1000rpm and takes a couple minutes to calm back down. I've found that the little valve on the throttle body that the butterfly valve presses against is sticking. Anybody know if you can lube that somehow?
Yes, you can try to lube it with silicone grease

Technically you can back it off or remove it and use your Ms controls to decide how long you want the idle to hang etc.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:31 PM   #36
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So the 800rpm mechanically set idle works but warm up is brutal, the car sounds like it's lugging just sitting there but holding a solid 800rpm.

Once warm it works quite well, full blower and high beams drop idle by 50rpms. My AC won't turn on and I haven't jumped it to try what it does to idle speed.

I was pleasantly surprised with how well the idle recovered and settled without any electronic aids, read as good or better than stock. I would have a droop of 25-30rpms past the settle point at worst and maybe a 10 rpm overshoot if that.

If I could get the high (warm up) idle that the MS actually did well (~1800rpm) but it to automatically shut the iac off after warm up, rather than go up to 2500rpm, (that or just get proper settings) I'd be set idle wise.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:35 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by inferno94 View Post
So the 800rpm mechanically set idle works but warm up is brutal, the car sounds like it's lugging just sitting there but holding a solid 800rpm.

Once warm it works quite well, full blower and high beams drop idle by 50rpms. My AC won't turn on and I haven't jumped it to try what it does to idle speed.

I was pleasantly surprised with how well the idle recovered and settled without any electronic aids, read as good or better than stock. I would have a droop of 25-30rpms past the settle point at worst and maybe a 10 rpm overshoot if that.

If I could get the high (warm up) idle that the MS actually did well (~1800rpm) but it to automatically shut the iac off after warm up, rather than go up to 2500rpm, (that or just get proper settings) I'd be set idle wise.
Mechanical idle is the way to go, you might need to adjust it a few times a year as the seasons change but no drooping/stalling/oscillation is awesome. As for your warmup problem, try inputting the DIY defaults for your idle valve and setting it to "warmup only". It will give you a nice 1800rpm warmup and then settle to 800.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:40 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Jeff_Ciesielski View Post
As for your warmup problem, try inputting the DIY defaults for your idle valve and setting it to "warmup only". It will give you a nice 1800rpm warmup and then settle to 800.
I was kind of joking about doing this but if it's actually possible that sounds great.

I set the idle speed on a day it was 8C in my garage and today it was -5C and the idle didn't change, yay. If I can get it working I'll keep a little screwdriver in the glove box and that should be the end of it. Thanks.

Edit: I can't believe I didn't see that setting when I was trying to get this sorted. This seems like the most effective MSI idle control method considering everyone's problems with idle.

Last edited by inferno94; 01-27-2010 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by inferno94 View Post
I was kind of joking about doing this but if it's actually possible that sounds great.

I set the idle speed on a day it was 8C in my garage and today it was -5C and the idle didn't change, yay. If I can get it working I'll keep a little screwdriver in the glove box and that should be the end of it. Thanks.

Edit: I can't believe I didn't see that setting when I was trying to get this sorted. This seems like the most effective MSI idle control method considering everyone's problems with idle.
I've been preaching it for a while . Bells and whistles are really great and all, but in the end, a mechanically based idle with warmup assist is just more reliable and easy to set up.
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:26 PM   #40
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This is what a friend recommended for my idle problem. Essentially a strong stable idle by making sure the VE table is set correctly at the idle cells and then minor assist from the idle settings. Also notice how he recommends that the idle motor be more/less in the center of its travel....

First, I'd raise your target idle speed in MegaTune. This is on the More Settings menu, choose Idle Control. Then set the 'Slow (warm) Idle Speed (RPM)' setting to something a bit higher than the default. The default was 900 I believe. Try setting it to 1100. Burn to ECU.

While on this page still, look at the Minimum and Closed (dc) settings near the top. They'll be set to low numbers, 9 for the MM9495, 18 or 19 for the MM9093. When the car is idling, ideally you want the idleDC value to be just maybe 2 dc points above this minimum. That's what we'll do next.

Now, what you'll have happening at idle if you don't do anything else, is the MegaSquirtPNP's idle code will be trying to raise the idle on it's own. It will do this using the idle valve. That's not what you want ultimately.

So now, with the car running, from MegaTune's main screen, right click one of the gauges, choose 'Swap To' and set it to Idle DC or Idle DC Gauge. This will show you how hard your idle valve is being driven in real-time.

Now use a flat head screwdriver, and adjust the air bypass screw on your throttlebody to raise the idle. The goal is to adjust the idle with the screwdriver (manually) until the idleDC value sits about 2dc points above the minimum DC point you noted earlier. This gives the MSPNP idle code the ability to open the valve more if needed, and to close it a bit if needed, but it makes it do it doesn't require the idle vale to be opened a bunch just to maintain a proper idle, the idle bleed is doing a portion of that and the MSPNP idle code is steadying the idle with the valve, that's all.

Your car will idle a bit higher now, but should be more stable. This has always worked well when needed, let me know how it works for you.
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