Idle viiiiiibration! - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-24-2012, 11:47 PM   #41
I'm Miserable!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: albany, ga
Posts: 1,869
Total Cats: 3
Default

datalogs of idle?
PW at idle?
seq or batch fuel?
stock motor mounts?
Techsalvager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 12:00 AM   #42
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 61
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Well, it fixed several things I've been having problems with.

Hell, the goddamn AFR's actually match up perfectly now between tunerstudio and my gauge. Starting is so much better (SO much better) with the new firmware, and it actually helped a little bit with the misfiring.

But it didn't solve it. It's still pretty bad. Should I swap back to my old plugs, and see if they don't have such large problems Ele?

(Edit) Yeah, holy ----. It solved a ton of problems I've been having with various bits and pieces, but it didn't solve the misfiring problem.
Ugh, OK, now that you've sent me here I see the frustration. I don't think a plug change to a different brand/type will help much until you straighten out the rough running. The IR's can fire a leaner mixture so this might be why it's running better at WOT. If your fueling has been off since the issue came back you could have carbon fouled any and all plugs in there so run cheapies for a few. Plugs look black or new when you pull them?

I hate to throw tools at this issue but I would have a scope on the injectors, coils and crank sensors to rule out any electronic faults. I'm also going to assume stable/correct cam timing and good valve train with good vacuum gage readings and not a wildly moving signal at idle. I'd also check fuel pressure for delivery and be sure it's not bleeding down fast with engine off indicating a leaking injector.
superdve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 12:09 AM   #43
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

What???

Blarn u try to hard. Tichen i up till it stumbles.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 12:10 AM   #44
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Well, superdve, unfortunately I swapped back to the old set of BKR6E's. Then I swapped to a new set of BKR7E's...Ran damn near perfectly on both. They don't have nearly the...smoothness, the much better feel of the new plugs on acceleration, but they run damn near perfectly anywhere else. The new plugs you recommended have all sorts of hesitation or misfires if not under acceleration, but I'll be damned if they don't feel amazing under acceleration.

Following is the datalog of the new set of BRK7E's. They are running rich as hell because the tune is for the new plugs Superdve recommended, however.

Working on a log of the plugs Superdve recommended, and also to make entirely certain I didn't change something in all the switching of plugs/etc. I did.
Attached Files
File Type: msl 2012-04-24_20.06.12.msl (100.2 KB, 72 views)
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 12:26 AM   #45
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Your a ---- valen. You make too many fukkn changes to determine wtf is goig on. Make one change. Datalog like a motherfullr.

U work in texh. Uou shoul know this. Jay reminded me of this after he sexed my ride.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 12:29 AM   #46
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Okay, new datalog is here.

Faefae, just for you, the only thing that has changed is the plugs. That's it. It fixes the idle headache, but the NGK's suck *** under acceleration compared to the Autolite's. Seriously, you can tell the difference between them under accel big time.

P.S. This new log is the Autolites, old log is the NGK BRK7E's.

(Edit) Added a new log just for you Faefae of it at absolutely maximum richness - idling at ~10AFR, and the absolute limit before it won't run. Nothing has changed from the previous Autolite log except it being rich as fuuuuuuuuuck
Attached Files
File Type: msl 2012-04-24_20.25.31.msl (128.3 KB, 59 views)
File Type: msl 2012-04-24_20.31.19.msl (57.5 KB, 61 views)
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 12:32 AM   #47
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 61
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Well, superdve, unfortunately I swapped back to the old set of BKR6E's. Then I swapped to a new set of BKR7E's...Ran damn near perfectly on both. They don't have nearly the...smoothness, the much better feel of the new plugs on acceleration, but they run damn near perfectly anywhere else. The new plugs you recommended have all sorts of hesitation or misfires if not under acceleration, but I'll be damned if they don't feel amazing under acceleration.

Following is the datalog of the new set of BRK7E's. They are running rich as hell because the tune is for the new plugs Superdve recommended, however.

Working on a log of the plugs Superdve recommended, and also to make entirely certain I didn't change something in all the switching of plugs/etc. I did.
It's weird for sure. I think the XS's are pretty cold in the XS3922 as well as a 7 in NGK, (our 3923's cross to an NGK BKR6EIX but our 2 might be a fuzz colder than NGK's 7's explaining why it runs better upstairs and worse down low.

The car SHOULD have little issue idling at lambda 1.0, (14.12 ish on E10), and I'd think that you need to square up the VE table after verifying any of the basics you might have overlooked. Like fae says 1 change, 1 test, anything else will skew you over!
superdve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 12:47 AM   #48
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by superdve View Post
The car SHOULD have little issue idling at lambda 1.0, (14.12 ish on E10), and I'd think that you need to square up the VE table after verifying any of the basics you might have overlooked. Like fae says 1 change, 1 test, anything else will skew you over!
I can't get them to idle at a steady 14.12 Dave. Right now, the closest I can get goes from between 12.8 to 14.2

I don't have the problems with the NGK's, could it be due to a particular design of the plugs as I noted they were meant for ATVs or something similar?
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 12:51 AM   #49
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

I hate yog go kill yourself. One change a t a tien
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 12:52 AM   #50
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

The only goddamn change I'm making is spark plugs Faefae, except for the one time where I kept richening it like you wanted, and when Dave mentioned 14.12 - and I'm still using the same goddamn Autolite plugs in all tests from the first Autolite plug log with no changes other than the fuel table FFS.

(Edit just for drunk Faefae)

I'm making one change at a time.

EITHER I change spark plugs and test
OR I change the fuel VE and test

AND that is ALL I am doing. One change at a time broski.
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 01:18 AM   #51
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 61
Total Cats: 3
Default

Put the NGKs back in as they idle better and work the ve table. The AFX is good but make sure it has been calibrated in free air recently. If you can't get good idle check compression and I'd do a leak down. Those 3922s are too cold right right now!

Reason why I suggest lambda 1.0 is you should calibrate ve ttables to hit a desired 1.0 with no correction then adjust afr tables for required ratios after.
superdve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 01:23 AM   #52
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Thanks man, will do.
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 01:31 AM   #53
I'm Miserable!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: albany, ga
Posts: 1,869
Total Cats: 3
Default

is it seq or batched fuel?
Where is your wideband in the exhaust stream.
Upload your tune
Do you have a pyrometer?
Techsalvager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 01:32 AM   #54
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Batched, 24" from the turbo, tune is in the OP, no pyro.
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 01:34 AM   #55
I'm Miserable!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: albany, ga
Posts: 1,869
Total Cats: 3
Default

why so far from the turbo?
I have mine like 8 inches right off the turbine exit.
with a sensor that far away readings will be delayed even more from exit of engine to sensor reading.
hmm NGK AFX, bosch sensor? the exact bosch sensor for it or did you get one people mention from the parts store?
I've used those units with the bosch sensor and seen it at idle not read correctly.
AFX was at 13.x while the narrowband was at stoich and the SLC DIY one was hovering around 14.5 to 15.1 area
Techsalvager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 01:37 AM   #56
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

You have a wideband sensor, 6" off the turbo exit Tech?

Most widebands recommend 18" minimum to prevent sensor damage and/or correct sensor readings FYI. I run 24" simply because it's the easiest spot to put it.
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 03:10 AM   #57
I'm Miserable!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: albany, ga
Posts: 1,869
Total Cats: 3
Default

yeah around 6 to 8 inches from where the downpipe and turbine exit meet.
read above last post about my dealings with the ngk afx and bosch sensor. I have no experience with the ngk afx and ntk sensor, though I've heard its way more accurate.

Your tune on the first page is it with the 550cc injectors or 650cc injectors?
Techsalvager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 03:11 AM   #58
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

550cc. I just adjusted req_fuel for the 650's.

The NTK sensor is very explicit about a minimum of 18" in the docs, so I just followed what they said.
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 03:29 AM   #59
I'm Miserable!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: albany, ga
Posts: 1,869
Total Cats: 3
Default

checked the dead time and what I found is off from what you have in your tune.
A proper dead time will make tuning idle nicer and will keep the injector output at various voltages much more stable in terms of output.

8volt 2.55ms = 2550us
10volt 1.70ms = 1700us
12volt 1.20ms = 1200us
14volt 0.92ms = 920us
16volt 0.75ms = 750us

FIC 650cc ev14 dead times that I found
since ms2 only has 13.2v gonna have to wing it unless there is some softare or aloghtrim to use to figure it out.
I'd start at 1ms instead of 1.2ms
Yes you will have to retune idle area atleast.
Techsalvager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 03:41 AM   #60
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techsalvager View Post
checked the dead time and what I found is off from what you have in your tune.
A proper dead time will make tuning idle nicer and will keep the injector output at various voltages much more stable in terms of output.

8volt 2.55ms = 2550us
10volt 1.70ms = 1700us
12volt 1.20ms = 1200us
14volt 0.92ms = 920us
16volt 0.75ms = 750us

FIC 650cc ev14 dead times that I found
since ms2 only has 13.2v gonna have to wing it unless there is some softare or aloghtrim to use to figure it out.
I'd start at 1ms instead of 1.2ms
Yes you will have to retune idle area atleast.
If techsalvage n faefaef r correcting you u r fuked son
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM
why is my car running like pewp? (tune/datalog) itsMikey MSPNP 3 09-28-2015 07:40 AM
mslabs MS2 - Idle control issue ndragun MEGAsquirt 0 09-20-2015 11:28 PM


Tags
joe perez

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:55 AM.