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Old 05-11-2010, 11:28 AM   #1
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Default Ignition configuration troubles

Needing a little help. I have a 95 1.8 that I am attempting to get my MS1 v2.2 up and going on. The engine is stock with the exception of an exhaust cam on the intake. The cams are degreed where I want them so the exhaust is rolled out a bit. (oh and my T3/T4 of course) lol Due to the exhaust change my CAS adjustment is at the max advanced position. It runs ok on the stock ECM. Boosting aside. So my motor and parts are ok.

My problem is getting the timing set up on the MS. I can make it run sorta. Seem to be hung up on the ignition settings. To get it to run I must enable the map and set timing to around 50. Of course it runs horrible. I looked around at other MSQs posted and appears my setting should be close.

Oh, still have a few things to finish up like installing the IAT and wideband. Not a problem here as all I am trying to to is get the ignition set up.

Any ideas why I can't get the base timing set right?
barelyruns.msq

barelyruns.xls
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:26 PM   #2
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My God in Heaven, newbs posting MSQs and Logs along with their questions!

Is this the harbinger of the apocalypse?



About the CAS- have you gone through the procedure with the MS where you lock the timing at 10 and then adjust the numerical values in the "trigger angle" window?

I must admit, you have the worst looking advance table I have ever seen in my entire life. And I've seen the advance table for a weed-wacker.

Wait a sec....



Are you running my "improved spark output driver" circuit? If not, you're gonna destroy your ignition coils PDQ like that.
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:44 PM   #3
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Newbie, Well sorta. :-) I first ran MS around 2002. All TBI on V8s. Wrote a little code to support a progressive linkage TBI. I have 4 variations of MS on the shelf. So in short, been around them but forgot it all. lol

I do have the ignition mod so Spark inverted is correct. Now to my problem. It fails me to set timing at the CAS procedure. Setting fixed angle to 10 is WAY slow to even fire the motor. Going to the map and tweeking to that Monstrosity got it to run.
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:51 PM   #4
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Is this a result of not being able to move the CAS advanced enough to bring timing in? As I noted, my cams are rolled aprt quite a way. Dont have the exact specs handy but they are around 110 or 112 deg centers. Stock is 100.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaturbo95 View Post
Newbie, Well sorta. :-) I first ran MS around 2002. All TBI on V8s.
Heh, well that explains it. Usually when somebody has "newb" under their name around here, you're in for a long conversation.

Quote:
It fails me to set timing at the CAS procedure. Setting fixed angle to 10 is WAY slow to even fire the motor. Going to the map and tweeking to that Monstrosity got it to run.
Well, here's my usual procedure for setting the initial offset on a new engine. First, disconnect the injectors. Now, hook a timing gun up to #1. You'll probably need to power the gun externally, as we're gonna be drawing down the battery here. Put a paint mark on the notch in the crank pulley. Lock the ignition timing at 10, lock the cranking timing at 10, and have crank over the starter while you watch for the mark. Adjust as needed.

If it was running on the stock ECU before, then you should be pretty close. You've got a pretty wide latitude for adjustment in software, though it does have to be within reason.

Can get it running and keep it running with the ignition locked at 10, at any RPM? That will make this far easier.

A few thoughts...

Is it possible that the mark on your pulley isn't where it should be? I've never seen it myself, but some folks have experienced slippage of the crank pulley. It's a two-piece assembly with a rubber ring in the middle, and the notch is on the outer half. Pull your #1 plug and drop your oil dipstick down the hole. Turn the engine by hand, and very that the mark on the pulley actually hits "0" when the piston crosses TDC.


Maybe this isn't an ignition problem, but a fuel problem? You said you didn't have the wideband in yet, so perhaps your mixture is just totally off in the weeds?
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:56 PM   #6
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Thanks and Good suggestions.
My balancer mark was actually wrong. (Need to replace) And btw 95 is different than others. The mark is not TDC. Includes the timing advance of 6 or 8 deg. I marked TDC when I degreed the cam. I use a TDC stop that screws into the plug hole. I also unhooking the injectors while I sorted a few things out. But being solo limits my options to turn the key and be under the hood. (I like to think my third leg is long enough to reach, but reality struck that down) Now I did borrow my neighbor for a little testing which got me this far. Fuel I agree is why out there. but with timing this wrong fuel is a stab anyway. I was having to tweak req_fuel to start then again to get to idle. WhenI did finally get an idle I checked timing just to see and was about -2. (and a glowing red header). I feel I need to get timing sorted before I chase fuel too much.

The suggestions reaffirmed that I need to get the initial offset correct. Problem I ran into is no more adjustment on the CAS. So maybe my options are to either I tweak the CAS to allow more advance adjustment, or move the exhaust Cam back to stock location. I am hoping to learn a setting to avoid either.

Tonight I will pull the bolt from the CAS to move it on around and see what happens. That should tell me what is next.

Hey Joe, Not everyday I get the claim the worst ever at something. Do I get an award? lol

Thanks so much guys. Having another set of eyes to say config looks right is a big help.
Just call me

Last edited by Justaturbo95; 05-11-2010 at 03:00 PM. Reason: added comment
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:04 AM   #7
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Well just to close the thought. Bumping the CAS around brought everying to life. Actually took a short drive. Just bummed I have to create some way to hold the CAS now. Would be much easier to move back within adjustment and fix in the software.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:56 PM   #8
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Oh, but you can.

This isn't your exact ECU, but there's a pretty detailed procedure outlined here:
http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/models/...tm#Section_Two

(you may need to scroll down some)
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaturbo95 View Post
But being solo limits my options to turn the key and be under the hood.
Buy a remote starter button.

They are available at most auto parts stores. It's nothing more than a pushbutton in a little plastic enclosure, with leads coming off which attach to the starter and the battery. This allows you to trigger the starter while outside the car.

Here is an example: http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt...tch-35448.html

On mine, I cut off the spring clip from one end and installed a 1/4" female connector which plugs directly into the starter.



Quote:
The suggestions reaffirmed that I need to get the initial offset correct. Problem I ran into is no more adjustment on the CAS. So maybe my options are to either I tweak the CAS to allow more advance adjustment, or move the exhaust Cam back to stock location. I am hoping to learn a setting to avoid either.
You should be able to leave the CAS where it is and adjust the trigger angle in the Megasquirt. I'm having a hard time understanding why this is not working for you.


Quote:
Hey Joe, Not everyday I get the claim the worst ever at something. Do I get an award? lol
Uhm, sure. You win the coveted Golden ****.

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Old 05-12-2010, 03:48 PM   #10
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Great - an award about as worthless as my MAP was...

You guys are killing off all my excuses. lol Have not had a remote starter switch for an untold amount of years. Will have to look for the one at HF as I need fairly often for some old machinery. Thinking GM was not interested in digging around under the car to plug it in.

Ok, for the CAS. I was fighting settings as I firmly believed I could get it done in software before I started the post. I was exceeding the ranges allowed in the trigger angle field according to instructions. I had to move the CAS better than 45 deg to get where I am. (Say 50) So follow me here. I need to retard the CAS 50 degrees and mate up config to that location.
So if I add Trigger Anlge Addition I can Retard the CAS correct?
Trigger angle addition is 0 and trigger angle is 50. So if I change...
Trigger Angle Addition to +45 I should be able to rotate the CAS(retard it) 45 degrees and be back in the ballpark.
Seems backwards to my observations And I would need to change numbers to be catching a previous event. 180 minus the 50 for CAS = 130. Retarding the CAS further would put in to acceptable programing range.
As I see it TAA +45 and TA about 95 should put me in range of my CAS adjustment. Seems like this would cause coils to fire wrong. Guess swapping coili outputs would fix it.
Am I loco?
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