Integrating Megasquirt into stock ECU case
#1
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Integrating Megasquirt into stock ECU case
Hi all,
I've been hunting for a good place to ask this question, and seeing the expertise that all you guys here have with MS on a miata, I think there isn't a better place than this.
Here's the situation. I'm planning to autocross my nearly-stock 92 NA next season in STS2. For those of you who dont know, this is an SCCA class which allows you to do basic engine mods like intake and header. The suspension mods allowed are much more open.
The class allows one to use a modified ECU, provided you use stock case, sensors, and wiring. . The following is the exact wording from the 2007 rulebook:
My plan is to get all the other stuff like intake, headers etc. and then try to integrate MS into the stock case, using the stock connector. Sort of like a PnP. This is legal since the rules do not specify if the function of the "reprogrammed ECU" is performed through a change of hardware, or software.
I want your advice on some issues that I foresee with my limited MS knowledge:
1) What hardware I should be buying to make this happen. MSI, MSII, or microsquirt? I'd like to spend as little money on this as possible because the suspension is going to eat a lot of the budget.
2) Can the stock barndoor AFM be made to work with either of these, and not use a MAP at all?
3) What about wiring? Can it be kept as near to stock as possible?
4) Any other issues you guys foresee?
(oh BTW, I did do a search and found this thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...light=ECU+case
Its just that the OP didnt follow up on what happened with his plans)
I've been hunting for a good place to ask this question, and seeing the expertise that all you guys here have with MS on a miata, I think there isn't a better place than this.
Here's the situation. I'm planning to autocross my nearly-stock 92 NA next season in STS2. For those of you who dont know, this is an SCCA class which allows you to do basic engine mods like intake and header. The suspension mods allowed are much more open.
The class allows one to use a modified ECU, provided you use stock case, sensors, and wiring. . The following is the exact wording from the 2007 rulebook:
1. Reprogrammed ECU may be used in the standard housing. Traction control parameters may not be altered. Altered engine controllers may not alter boost levels in forced induction engines.
2. Electronic components may be installed in-line between an engine’s sensors and ECU. These components may alter the signal coming from the sensor in order to affect the ECU’s operation of engine management system. Example: fuel controllers that modify the signal coming from an airflow sensor.
2. Electronic components may be installed in-line between an engine’s sensors and ECU. These components may alter the signal coming from the sensor in order to affect the ECU’s operation of engine management system. Example: fuel controllers that modify the signal coming from an airflow sensor.
I want your advice on some issues that I foresee with my limited MS knowledge:
1) What hardware I should be buying to make this happen. MSI, MSII, or microsquirt? I'd like to spend as little money on this as possible because the suspension is going to eat a lot of the budget.
2) Can the stock barndoor AFM be made to work with either of these, and not use a MAP at all?
3) What about wiring? Can it be kept as near to stock as possible?
4) Any other issues you guys foresee?
(oh BTW, I did do a search and found this thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...light=ECU+case
Its just that the OP didnt follow up on what happened with his plans)
#3
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Those were my thoughts exactly, but I will have to clarify that with one of the members of the exec. committee of the SCCA that makes those decisions. I am posting a thread on miata.net right about now.
#6
I don't see why it wouldn't work... the V3 assembly is not as tall as the V2.2. I think you could get it in the case with room to spare. Just leave off the DB9 and DB37 and run the chassis wiring to the stock connector via standard wiring. Dremel out an appropriate sized whole in the case for you DB9 and do the same for it.
#7
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After seeing the guts of my PNP, I don't see why it couldn't fit inside a stock case if (1) you hand wire the main board to daughter board instead of using the serial cable and (2) fit the map sensor externally.
I assume your rule book says the AFM must remain in place. If so, can you simply secure the flapper in the full open position?
Also, I'm sure you realize that the MiataLink fits inside a stock case perfectly (by design).
You may wish to email DIY Autotune. Many months ago, Jerry was telling me of potential plans to fit a MS board into a stock case for a well known racer, and he said he had "several ideas" as I recall.
I assume your rule book says the AFM must remain in place. If so, can you simply secure the flapper in the full open position?
Also, I'm sure you realize that the MiataLink fits inside a stock case perfectly (by design).
You may wish to email DIY Autotune. Many months ago, Jerry was telling me of potential plans to fit a MS board into a stock case for a well known racer, and he said he had "several ideas" as I recall.
#8
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Braineck, your point that MS can be used as a piggyback (though technically it wouldnt be one) is probably on the fringe of illegality because MS would be sending signals *back* to the sensors, and not just *altering* them. I dont want to be in that position.
Arkmage & Ben, I see what you guys are saying about the DB9 & DB37 connectors.
However, MAP is not legal. I would have to run the stock AFM while retaining its functionality.
Can MS be made to work with the standard AFM, i.e, without installing a MAP sensor?
Does it matter which MS to order: 1 or 2?
I am also on the lookout for a stock 90-93 ECU case because I want to be able to switch back if something goes wrong. If anyone has one lying around, please do let me know.
I will also take DIYautotune's opinion on this.
Arkmage & Ben, I see what you guys are saying about the DB9 & DB37 connectors.
However, MAP is not legal. I would have to run the stock AFM while retaining its functionality.
Can MS be made to work with the standard AFM, i.e, without installing a MAP sensor?
Does it matter which MS to order: 1 or 2?
I am also on the lookout for a stock 90-93 ECU case because I want to be able to switch back if something goes wrong. If anyone has one lying around, please do let me know.
I will also take DIYautotune's opinion on this.
#10
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http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/MAF_Stuff.htm
you could then use the MAP sensor for barometric correction
#11
The larger connector on the MSPNP - and some other features - make it a bit too large to fit in a stock Miata ECU case. We thought about it, but it's not going to go there. On paper, the Microsquirt has what is needed to make this work (two spark outputs, two spark inputs, and MAF capability), although I have not seen it done yet.
#12
Braineck, your point that MS can be used as a piggyback (though technically it wouldnt be one) is probably on the fringe of illegality because MS would be sending signals *back* to the sensors, and not just *altering* them. I dont want to be in that position.
Arkmage & Ben, I see what you guys are saying about the DB9 & DB37 connectors.
However, MAP is not legal. I would have to run the stock AFM while retaining its functionality.
Can MS be made to work with the standard AFM, i.e, without installing a MAP sensor?
Does it matter which MS to order: 1 or 2?
I am also on the lookout for a stock 90-93 ECU case because I want to be able to switch back if something goes wrong. If anyone has one lying around, please do let me know.
I will also take DIYautotune's opinion on this.
Arkmage & Ben, I see what you guys are saying about the DB9 & DB37 connectors.
However, MAP is not legal. I would have to run the stock AFM while retaining its functionality.
Can MS be made to work with the standard AFM, i.e, without installing a MAP sensor?
Does it matter which MS to order: 1 or 2?
I am also on the lookout for a stock 90-93 ECU case because I want to be able to switch back if something goes wrong. If anyone has one lying around, please do let me know.
I will also take DIYautotune's opinion on this.
#14
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You can say that again. The Honda guys get a distinct advantage with this rule because they use MAP from the factory, and the **** of it is that the most restrictive part in the Miata intake is the AFM.
While its definitely tempting to be illegal, I think there's one way to retain MAF and be legal: use an external MAF sensor to input into the megasquirted stock ECU case, and retain the AFM, but dont do anything with that signal. The rule doesnt say that the ECU has to use the AFM signal. I'm presuming this is possible.
While its definitely tempting to be illegal, I think there's one way to retain MAF and be legal: use an external MAF sensor to input into the megasquirted stock ECU case, and retain the AFM, but dont do anything with that signal. The rule doesnt say that the ECU has to use the AFM signal. I'm presuming this is possible.
#19
Here's a question. WHY would you want to do this? I could understand it if it were possible to remove the AFM, or if you had engine mods that would need the amount of control a standalone would give you. But since you can't, why bother?
Use an emanage to take care of timing and to tweak the fuel. Do the crystal mod to the existing ECU to raise the rev limit (if necessary). Call it a day.
If you went this route I doubt you'd be giving up much power to a full standalone given the restrictions of the class.
Use an emanage to take care of timing and to tweak the fuel. Do the crystal mod to the existing ECU to raise the rev limit (if necessary). Call it a day.
If you went this route I doubt you'd be giving up much power to a full standalone given the restrictions of the class.
#20
You may wish to email DIY Autotune. Many months ago, Jerry was telling me of potential plans to fit a MS board into a stock case for a well known racer, and he said he had "several ideas" as I recall.