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So I’m thinking about my engine swap options in the next couple years. I really like the LFX, but I refuse to deal with the factory ECU bullshit, having to get things unlocked by hptuners, or whatever. I want to stick with megasquirt, so has LFX and megasquirt been done yet? Seems that I’d be dealing with a custom intake and standard injectors, or that Delphi DI conversion box that I’ve seen mentioned a few times. I’m not afraid of building harness and such.
so anyone done LFX and megasquirt yet? I’m gonna want 300+ hp, and N/A one way or another.
Between 4x VVT cams, DI, and e-throttle - I doubt it. AEM is starting to push into the gen V LT1 (with DI) space, so watching the Infinity series might be your best bet.
Im probably sounding like an old man but I don’t want any e-throttle, either. I figure I’d just go with a mustang or LS throttle body. VVT could probably be figured out.
Im probably sounding like an old man but I don’t want any e-throttle, either. I figure I’d just go with a mustang or LS throttle body. VVT could probably be figured out.
It all depends on how much complexity you want. I find it hard to argue with plugging in a Keisler-tuned Camaro ECU for $425 and instantly having a smooth 300+ RWHP on tap. Andrew has been stuffing LFX motors in RX8s for a few years now. https://www.keislerautomation.com/un...ts/lfx-e39-ecu
He has an unlimited HPTuners license for a very specific Camaro ECU and is fantastic to work with if you want some tweaks made.
It all depends on how much complexity you want. I find it hard to argue with plugging in a Keisler-tuned Camaro ECU for $425 and instantly having a smooth 300+ RWHP on tap. Andrew has been stuffing LFX motors in RX8s for a few years now. https://www.keislerautomation.com/un...ts/lfx-e39-ecu
He has an unlimited HPTuners license for a very specific Camaro ECU and is fantastic to work with if you want some tweaks made.
Thanks for the info.. It just seems to me that going from purpose built standaone to a factory ECU that needs a bunch of hackery to work without all the extra modules required these days is a big step backwards.. and relying on someone else to tweak my tune would drive me nuts... That does look like a great GM based solution, though, and the price isn't bad for sure.
Thanks for the info.. It just seems to me that going from purpose built standaone to a factory ECU that needs a bunch of hackery to work without all the extra modules required these days is a big step backwards.. and relying on someone else to tweak my tune would drive me nuts... That does look like a great GM based solution, though, and the price isn't bad for sure.
Is there even a megasquirt controlling a DI engine on the planet? I haven't found one on the internet. Hacking a standalone to control a style of engine it was never designed to control seems like a steeper mountain to climb than hacking the factory ecu to work with unnecessary modules. I would also be concerned about not being able to tweak the tune myself though. Can't you just learn to use whatever tuning software they're using?
Thanks for the info.. It just seems to me that going from purpose built standaone to a factory ECU that needs a bunch of hackery to work without all the extra modules required these days is a big step backwards.. and relying on someone else to tweak my tune would drive me nuts... That does look like a great GM based solution, though, and the price isn't bad for sure.
What kind of hackery is required? With HP Tuners you can make the ECU run the engine like a stand alone if I am not mistaken.
The OEM is very hard to beat: Chevy has spent a lot of time and money developing it. Something which cannot be said about aftermarket ECUs.
I am also not sure about aftermarket ECUs and DI. Timing requirements are way more important compared to port injection. The OEM solution has this all sorted.
Also: DBW throttle is great. Rock solid idle, great for traction control purposes, cruise control, auto-blip, torque management, no need for modification of the engine, etc.
You also get the ECU with/from the junkyard engine, so hard to beat on price too.
Megasquirt did not have much active firmware development in the last 5 years, there are more advanced aftermarket ECUs available at a similar price point now.
If you really insist on making the engine run on a standalone ECU, I would skip the megasquirt.
If you are concerned with not being able to change the tune, a HPTuners license is all you need, right?
Is there even a megasquirt controlling a DI engine on the planet? I haven't found one on the internet. Hacking a standalone to control a style of engine it was never designed to control seems like a steeper mountain to climb than hacking the factory ecu to work with unnecessary modules. I would also be concerned about not being able to tweak the tune myself though. Can't you just learn to use whatever tuning software they're using?
I think Reverant has done a few DI VW/Audis on MS3.
To put it bluntly - the difference between MS3x and the E39 ECM in the LFX is roughly the same as a MS3x and a 1979 Cadillac Seville - in both software and hardware complexity. E-throttle basically creates a "torque demand" model which means there's an interplay of spark advance, throttle, and fuel injection. One of the more interesting capabilities of the direct injection is making an air sandwich - basically timing the injection point precisely enough for a lean-cruise mode of 18:1 without knock. Technically really impressive.
Unfortunately, all that complexity makes it an absolute bitch to tune. The first thing you learn while tuning with HP Tuners is to basically throw away all your knowledge of megasquirt tuning. There's no target maps to play with, but there are endless amounts of tables that define everything, and making a change in one table might not actually effect a change unless a laundry list of conditions are met. I wish HPTuners was even a quarter as straightforward to use as Tunerstudio. But really outside of disabling vehicle anti theft, disabling a few codes, and scaling the MAF for our narrower intake tube, I really haven't done much with HP Tuners - it pretty much just works. And yeah, I definitely struggled with it to begin with but much of that was the learning curve.
To put it bluntly - the difference between MS3x and the E39 ECM in the LFX is roughly the same as a MS3x and a 1979 Cadillac Seville - in both software and hardware complexity. E-throttle basically creates a "torque demand" model which means there's an interplay of spark advance, throttle, and fuel injection. One of the more interesting capabilities of the direct injection is making an air sandwich - basically timing the injection point precisely enough for a lean-cruise mode of 18:1 without knock. Technically really impressive.
I too thought DBW was awful... until I drove a rental LFX Camaro. Even with the slushbox and factory tune it's a blast to drive (in a straight line). It's too heavy and impossible to see out of, but it shows you what it'd be capable of in a much lighter chassis and a bit of tuning. GM nailed the drivetrain in that car (never thought I'd say that about a factory-V6-anything). If anyone hasn't driven one of these, I highly suggest driving one before writing it off.
This is just me, but I wouldn't want to deal with all the aggravation of a standalone on that engine when someone else already has everything figured out. Also keep in mind Keisler's price INCLUDES the ECU--it's not just the tune. If you send him your compatible used ECU to flash, it's even less than that.
I have done a TON of research and development on this topic, but will keep it simple for now unless you want to go further down this spiral with me......
Due to the GDI system, there are only a tiny handful of companies that can even support a GDI V6 and none of them were interested in developing a calibration file for the LFX due to the R&D that would be required compared with the current level of ROI. MoTeC claimed they had a working LLT file, but once I got my hands on it, knowing what I know now, there is ZERO chance that is a working calibration and will end in nothing more than 5k down the drain. They have some brilliant folks working there, but unless you are a well known race team with a big budget you go to the back of a VERY long bus. The good news is that I am a complete moron and have made the ludicrous financial decision to help develop a standalone option just to see what the LFX is really capable of. I am in the final throws now (probably 2 weeks out from a running sample) and my wife is about to KILL ME as a result. I have freaking oscilloscopes and wires draped in almost every room of the house. LOL
Full standalone with dedicated motorsport harness...
"plug-n-play" adapter harness that will plug into a LFX harness and run the standalone.
Forgive the messes....I told you I am almost completely out of space to work. LOL
Last edited by griff; 06-18-2020 at 01:18 PM.
Reason: photos
To put it bluntly - the difference between MS3x and the E39 ECM in the LFX is roughly the same as a MS3x and a 1979 Cadillac Seville -
now that’s just hate speech.
Originally Posted by gooflophaze
in both software and hardware complexity. E-throttle basically creates a "torque demand" model which means there's an interplay of spark advance, throttle, and fuel injection. One of the more interesting capabilities of the direct injection is making an air sandwich - basically timing the injection point precisely enough for a lean-cruise mode of 18:1 without knock. Technically really impressive.
I have no desire for e-throttle. I’ve had 5 DBW vehicles in my stable.
Originally Posted by gooflophaze
Unfortunately, all that complexity makes it an absolute bitch to tune. The first thing you learn while tuning with HP Tuners is to basically throw away all your knowledge of megasquirt tuning. There's no target maps to play with, but there are endless amounts of tables that define everything, and making a change in one table might not actually effect a change unless a laundry list of conditions are met. I wish HPTuners was even a quarter as straightforward to use as Tunerstudio. But really outside of disabling vehicle anti theft, disabling a few codes, and scaling the MAF for our narrower intake tube, I really haven't done much with HP Tuners - it pretty much just works. And yeah, I definitely struggled with it to begin with but much of that was the learning curve.
I can’t see how modifying a stock ECU isn’t Hackery, and a stand-alone is.
Ive read your thread, hunting junkyards for the right ECU, and hassles associated with that, naaaah...
Maybe I’m just a dinosaur now, starting to know how carb guys felt 30 years ago... but I’m not afraid to learn anything that I see value in... and in a jacked stock ECU I just don’t. Maybe I should get e-cool and a piggyback.
06-08-2020, 05:04 PM
LFX on megasquirt?
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