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Loaded base map onto MSPNPPro...having a few issues
Hi everyone. I just got everything wired up and installed in my car (2001 NB2) to start tuning the Megasquirt while N/A. Today, I tried my first start. The car started up, but while setting the timing, it died within 2-3 minutes. A few things I noticed:
1.) My idle AFRs are VERY rich. My Innovate MTX-L gauge shows AFRs between 11.2-11.4.
2.) I did calibrate the AFR gauge within Tunerstudio, and Tunerstudio still shows a constant 7.8 AFRs while my Innovate shows a range of 11.2-11.4.
I'm not sure where to start from here. If it helps, I have my Innovate grounded to the ground point on the top right of the Intake Manifold toward the front of the engine. I also am running the base map included on the flash drive I got from DIY.
Thanks for any help, and if anymore information is needed, I can provide that.
2. Either you don't have the 0-5 volt analog output from the innovate gauge connected to the megasquirt properly or you didn't calibrate the AFR gauge in tunerstudio properly.
2. Either you don't have the 0-5 volt analog output from the innovate gauge connected to the megasquirt properly or you didn't calibrate the AFR gauge in tunerstudio properly.
I think it may be the wiring to the megasquirt. I was having a lot of trouble figuring out how to wire the wideband. Currently, I have the analog from my wideband going to the blue wire on the original O2 sensor connector in the engine bay (which I cut), because that is what I was advised to do. Is that the incorrect place to wire the analog signal?
I don't know where the ground on the factory O2 goes on a NB, but on NA it says that it terminates right kick panel somewhere, which isn't where the ECU grounds. You want wideband and ECU to be on the same ground point. This will get Tunerstudio to match what your gauge says when calibrated according to your wideband instructions.
Factory NA has isolated O2 Heater ground and Sensor ground isolated from each other, but often aftermarket wideband don't, at least mine doesn't (they are electrically the same, 0 resistance). In my case using the heater ground and the separate wire labeled signal ground on my wideband would cause all sorts of errors on my CLT, and other sensors using the car signal ground, whenever the wideband heater kicked on.
It still sounds like you have a Tunerstudio Calibration issue. Below is how I finalized my wideband wiring on my NA. Check in Tools > Calibrate AFR Table. Refer to your wideband documentation.
In my case I use O2 SIGNAL (RED/BLUE), O2 POWER (BLACK/YELLOW), and GROUND (BLACK) in the factory harness. I also tap into that ground with an extra wire and put a lug on it, then I tie that to the ECU ground on the stud on the back of my NA head. I tape off the sensor ground (BLACK/BLUE stripe). This solved any difference between Gauge and Tunerstudio differences I had, which were about .5 - 1 AFR different. I didn't cut my 02 harness on the car, I use a 02 pigtail from an older 02 sensor.
Good luck, sounds like you are pretty close to getting it.
I don't know where the ground on the factory O2 goes on a NB, but on NA it says that it terminates right kick panel somewhere, which isn't where the ECU grounds. You want wideband and ECU to be on the same ground point. This will get Tunerstudio to match what your gauge says when calibrated according to your wideband instructions.
Factory NA has isolated O2 Heater ground and Sensor ground isolated from each other, but often aftermarket wideband don't, at least mine doesn't (they are electrically the same, 0 resistance). In my case using the heater ground and the separate wire labeled signal ground on my wideband would cause all sorts of errors on my CLT, and other sensors using the car signal ground, whenever the wideband heater kicked on.
It still sounds like you have a Tunerstudio Calibration issue. Below is how I finalized my wideband wiring on my NA. Check in Tools > Calibrate AFR Table. Refer to your wideband documentation.
In my case I use O2 SIGNAL (RED/BLUE), O2 POWER (BLACK/YELLOW), and GROUND (BLACK) in the factory harness. I also tap into that ground with an extra wire and put a lug on it, then I tie that to the ECU ground on the stud on the back of my NA head. I tape off the sensor ground (BLACK/BLUE stripe). This solved any difference between Gauge and Tunerstudio differences I had, which were about .5 - 1 AFR different. I didn't cut my 02 harness on the car, I use a 02 pigtail from an older 02 sensor.
Good luck, sounds like you are pretty close to getting it.
Thank you! I meant the pigtail, sorry. So I currently have my wideband wired up as follows:
Yellow from wideband - soldered to blue wire on O2 sensor pigtail
Red from wideband - crimped to light blue wire, switched 12v source under steering column
Black and white (dimmer) from wideband - crimped to a ring terminal which is bolted down to the ground source on the front if the Intake Manifold to the right. Looks like that is where the ECU is grounded on the NB2 based on what I've read, but again, I'm an idiot with wiring so I don't know.
Those are the only wires I had. I'm not sure that I really have it hooked up correctly, as from what I'm understanding you have everything wired up on the O2 pigtail?
I tried calibrating again with the settings in my MTX-L manual (0v - 7.35 and 5v - 22.39) but still got the same issue.
It sounds like what you have is very similar. The important thing I was trying to make sure you had was the ground tied to something that goes to the ECU vs just body. In my case the black ground in the factory O2 wiring only goes to body (at least according to my interpretation of the wiring diagram).
Not sure what you mean by Black and white (dimmer). But if that is ground I think you have it right, get it to ECU ground. I have the same thing, but also have it tied to the one going to the pigtail (right or wrong and not necessary, it could just go to the manifold stud). Bottom line is just go to ECU ground, and make sure you don't use Signal ground in the pigtail unless you are positive your "wideband POWER ground" is electrically isolated from the "wideband SIGNAL ground". You can test a factory O2 sensor to observe correct behaviour. You will see that the ground for powering the O2 heater is not electrically connected to the Signal Ground on the O2 sensor with an ohm meter. If your wideband matches then maybe you could/should use the signal ground, I couldn't with the Glowshift wideband I have.
I did leave out that my wideband does have an Always Hot for gauge memory. I run this into an empty slot in the fuse box on the pass side with a spade crimp. So that is another wire that does not go down the factory pigtail.
The RED you use I have go the the pigtail, as it is also switched. My factory wire there is BLACK/YEL.
Back to what SpartanSV says. Put a volt meter on the analog out of your MTX-L and read the voltage, if it isn't reading a varying 0-5v signal out, then you might not have the correct wire. Keyed on should be about 5v and running should be lower. The odd thing is that you are getting a reading that is very close to your calibration. 0v = 7.35 and you are seeing 7.8, that tells me that you are close to 0 on the signal wire to the ECU. Either the wire either you are tapping into isn't going into the ECU or you are using the wrong wire from your MTX-L (I don't know what it should be), nor do I know NB wiring. See more on this below regarding O2 sensors...
I suppose you could verify that and change your 0v to be something different, like 2 or 5 and see if you get a constant 2 or 5, that means you are not getting voltage on the wideband input to the ECU.
Considering this and thinking a little more about this, a narrowband only puts out 0.1v to 0.9v which could be giving you a signal down in the 7.xx range if reading it like a wideband if you happen to have a 2nd 02 narrowband still hooked to your car and that pin is being read by your MSPNP.
Another thing to check... Some widebands output an narrowband output signal too. AEM have this as a switch option, Glowshift have a separate wire, so if you are sure you are using the right wire or setting, maybe MTX-L has the narrowband simulated output going to your MS somehow, if they have it.
If I look here I see 4W OE Narrowband Input: https://trubokitty.com/#/ms3xassembly
It is for MS3X but it does give you the correct pin location on the ECU. Do you have two O2 narrowband sensors? Are you using the correct one? I only have one and it is the 'front' one. I have assumed that NB uses that location as well when using wideband, look into that.
It sounds like what you have is very similar. The important thing I was trying to make sure you had was the ground tied to something that goes to the ECU vs just body. In my case the black ground in the factory O2 wiring only goes to body (at least according to my interpretation of the wiring diagram).
Not sure what you mean by Black and white (dimmer). But if that is ground I think you have it right, get it to ECU ground. I have the same thing, but also have it tied to the one going to the pigtail (right or wrong and not necessary, it could just go to the manifold stud). Bottom line is just go to ECU ground, and make sure you don't use Signal ground in the pigtail unless you are positive your "wideband POWER ground" is electrically isolated from the "wideband SIGNAL ground". You can test a factory O2 sensor to observe correct behaviour. You will see that the ground for powering the O2 heater is not electrically connected to the Signal Ground on the O2 sensor with an ohm meter. If your wideband matches then maybe you could/should use the signal ground, I couldn't with the Glowshift wideband I have.
I did leave out that my wideband does have an Always Hot for gauge memory. I run this into an empty slot in the fuse box on the pass side with a spade crimp. So that is another wire that does not go down the factory pigtail.
The RED you use I have go the the pigtail, as it is also switched. My factory wire there is BLACK/YEL.
Back to what SpartanSV says. Put a volt meter on the analog out of your MTX-L and read the voltage, if it isn't reading a varying 0-5v signal out, then you might not have the correct wire. Keyed on should be about 5v and running should be lower. The odd thing is that you are getting a reading that is very close to your calibration. 0v = 7.35 and you are seeing 7.8, that tells me that you are close to 0 on the signal wire to the ECU. Either the wire either you are tapping into isn't going into the ECU or you are using the wrong wire from your MTX-L (I don't know what it should be), nor do I know NB wiring. See more on this below regarding O2 sensors...
I suppose you could verify that and change your 0v to be something different, like 2 or 5 and see if you get a constant 2 or 5, that means you are not getting voltage on the wideband input to the ECU.
Considering this and thinking a little more about this, a narrowband only puts out 0.1v to 0.9v which could be giving you a signal down in the 7.xx range if reading it like a wideband if you happen to have a 2nd 02 narrowband still hooked to your car and that pin is being read by your MSPNP.
Another thing to check... Some widebands output an narrowband output signal too. AEM have this as a switch option, Glowshift have a separate wire, so if you are sure you are using the right wire or setting, maybe MTX-L has the narrowband simulated output going to your MS somehow, if they have it.
If I look here I see 4W OE Narrowband Input: https://trubokitty.com/#/ms3xassembly
It is for MS3X but it does give you the correct pin location on the ECU. Do you have two O2 narrowband sensors? Are you using the correct one? I only have one and it is the 'front' one. I have assumed that NB uses that location as well when using wideband, look into that.
Good luck, let us know if anything fixes it.
Thank you, I appreciate the help! So I did check the output wire, and I get a varying 0-5v reading. Then, I did what you said with changing the 0v calibration to 2 or 5, and tunerstudio then started showing 2.6 rather than 7.8. Looks like it must be the analog output wired being wired incorrectly. I will have to investigate that now, since the NB2 has two O2 sensors, so I currently have it wired up to the pigtail from the old front O2 sensor, connected inside the engine bay. There is also a connected under the seat, but I'm not sure which to use or if I even have it on the correct wire.
Just figured it out. Turns out wiring it to the analog input of the options plug worked! I'm now getting the AFR readings. It is .1 to .2 off, so I'm guessing that just needs some messing around with the AFR calibration.
One other thing. Depending on which ECU you have There may be a jumper inside the case to switch between front and rear factory o2 sensor wires that are being used by the ECU.
You may need to do some manual adjustments (comparing the TS dashboard AF gauge to the controller gauge) in TS to get the readings correct.
Thanks! I was able to get the AFRs pretty close after some adjustments in TS.
Originally Posted by natewin
One other thing. Depending on which ECU you have There may be a jumper inside the case to switch between front and rear factory o2 sensor wires that are being used by the ECU.
Gotcha, thank you. I will have to see if the PNPPro does; but so far, I have been good with the AFRs. I'm now having trouble with idle.
10-12-2020, 06:38 PM
Loaded base map onto MSPNPPro...having a few issues
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