Look at my timing map tell me its safe ? - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-27-2009, 08:03 AM   #21
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,865
Total Cats: 493
Default

I've had it up to 8 psi so I've been in the 156 kpa row but not above. I've tuned for the fact that I have the greddy downpipe holding spool back until 4k - a bit more spark to help ecourage the ca ralong before that rpm. The guys at Begi are welding my new downpipe at the end of the week and with that I'll install the 460's.. then to 10-11 psi and I certainly may have to pull timing from that 184 kpa row.. who knows. I will add however that this intercooler seems to keep iats quite happy, though exact #'s I do not yet have as AFM removal and installation of the proper IAT sensor is on the to do list but it most likely contributes to being able to run decent timing in boost..
Found another pic of the big ol thing:
[IMG][/IMG]
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 10:23 AM   #22
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Miata View Post
if stock is 30* with 10* base then the people that run 18* base are running within 1-2* of me.

But it seems no one else is running as much as me with MS... they dyno will tell all.
No, you got that wrong. Stock is 10* advance at idle with a TOTAL of 30* advance. So if you had the stock ECU timing map it would have 10's in it for idle and 30 for 101kPa.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 01:51 PM   #23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pinellas park Fl
Posts: 308
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
No, you got that wrong. Stock is 10* advance at idle with a TOTAL of 30* advance. So if you had the stock ECU timing map it would have 10's in it for idle and 30 for 101kPa.

Right that would be 30* total advance with 10*base, there have been people run 18* base and that would be a TOTAL advance of 38*.
92Miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 04:06 PM   #24
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Miata View Post
Right that would be 30* total advance with 10*base, there have been people run 18* base and that would be a TOTAL advance of 38*.
That's still ASSuming 30* total advance is factory. I don't know what factory spec is.

Anyways, none of that matters. Your original map you posted is pretty ridiculous. Too much timing at high load, high RPM. Too much at 101kPa in the mid range, but then falls on it's *** at high RPM? Backwards like whoa. My map is more or less the curve you're looking to run, though it may be (likely is) lower than optimal.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 05:21 PM   #25
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pinellas park Fl
Posts: 308
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
That's still ASSuming 30* total advance is factory. I don't know what factory spec is.

Anyways, none of that matters. Your original map you posted is pretty ridiculous. Too much timing at high load, high RPM. Too much at 101kPa in the mid range, but then falls on it's *** at high RPM? Backwards like whoa. My map is more or less the curve you're looking to run, though it may be (likely is) lower than optimal.

From my dyno graphs on the stock ecu i found power would fall off quicker up top at 14* than at 10*. So i put less timing up top, although i could add some to the 6300 cells.

What makes it too much ? if the car doesnt Knock or ping at those levels why not run it ?

And im not going for Lower than optimal, i want every last HP i can tune out of the thing, While still being some what safe.

Im not gonna drive around with Detination(sp) but im not gonna run less timing just to be save.

So if that means 39 makes the best power and 40 pings ill run 39.

I/We will know how well it works saturday since it will be on the dyno then.

I will test the Base Map, my Agressive map, then the Agressive map holding 39 to redline.
92Miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 06:14 PM   #26
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Miata View Post
From my dyno graphs on the stock ecu i found power would fall off quicker up top at 14* than at 10*. So i put less timing up top, although i could add some to the 6300 cells.

What makes it too much ? if the car doesnt Knock or ping at those levels why not run it ?

And im not going for Lower than optimal, i want every last HP i can tune out of the thing, While still being some what safe.

Im not gonna drive around with Detination(sp) but im not gonna run less timing just to be save.

So if that means 39 makes the best power and 40 pings ill run 39.

I/We will know how well it works saturday since it will be on the dyno then.

I will test the Base Map, my Agressive map, then the Agressive map holding 39 to redline.
Do what you will. No way in hell I'd run your timing map. I think you're looking at it all wrong. Minimum timing for Best Torque (MBT) can sometimes be reached before knock. Dyno will tell you this too. People here that have high 30's for high RPM 101kPa cells are all boosted and never really use those cells. (other than falling through them when shifting, which practically doesn't count as load's not the same)
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 06:38 PM   #27
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pinellas park Fl
Posts: 308
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Do what you will. No way in hell I'd run your timing map. I think you're looking at it all wrong. Minimum timing for Best Torque (MBT) can sometimes be reached before knock. Dyno will tell you this too. People here that have high 30's for high RPM 101kPa cells are all boosted and never really use those cells. (other than falling through them when shifting, which practically doesn't count as load's not the same)

Very true didnt think much about that, Dyno will tell in the end but thats a really really good point.
92Miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 06:49 PM   #28
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,370
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Miata View Post
Very true didnt think much about that, Dyno will tell in the end but thats a really really good point.
Pat nailed it. This is why it's so hard to tune a spark map on the street. Without knowing how much power every degree adds, it is impossible to dial it in perfectly. You can get close on pump gas with boost, just because you detonate far before you get to MBT, but with race gas or an NA setup it's damn near impossible.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 05:07 PM   #29
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 124
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Miata View Post
Ive never heard Knock in a miata but ive had it in my 73 hornet I6 and my 240.

TDC on the balancer is TDC.
I'm curious if you verified this with the timing light... setting your spark in MSPNP to +10* (instead of -10, use map option) and verify your CAS properly calibrated with what the timing light is reading out. If I'm not mistaken, verifying pulley is aligned with piston TDC is not the same as its calibration with the CAS.

I have a copy of some Miata book by Norman H Garrett (previous Mazda engineer). He has a spark timing map, and it shows max ignition adv on a stock Miata is only ~26-27 deg. Plus, just as Pat mentioned with MBT coming before knock limit, 18* idle advance on a stock motor produces LESS peak power than the 14* idle advance setting. 18* advance gives better low-end torque.
zzyx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 05:14 PM   #30
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pinellas park Fl
Posts: 308
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzyx7 View Post
I'm curious if you verified this with the timing light... setting your spark in MSPNP to +10* (instead of -10, use map option) and verify your CAS properly calibrated with what the timing light is reading out. If I'm not mistaken, verifying pulley is aligned with piston TDC is not the same as its calibration with the CAS.

I have a copy of some Miata book by Norman H Garrett (previous Mazda engineer). He has a spark timing map, and it shows max ignition adv on a stock Miata is only ~26-27 deg. Plus, just as Pat mentioned with MBT coming before knock limit, 18* idle advance on a stock motor produces LESS peak power than the 14* idle advance setting. 18* advance gives better low-end torque.
the crank pulley is aligned with Cyl TDC, My timing is Set at *10 with MS set to +10*, Not sure how else i need to look at it.

I never dyno`d my car with 18* but found huge gains under 4500 and good gains till redline with 14*

I gained 13hp and 16tq @4k rpm and gained 9hp and 11tq Peak.

So if the max advance is 27* with 10* base i would have been running 31* with 14* base.

Im going to the track tonight and will try a few diffrent maps.

the base map.
A map with max of 31*
and my Agressive map with a max of 39.

If theres time i will go from the fastest map up or down 2* to see if it gets faster or slower.
92Miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 05:23 PM   #31
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 124
Total Cats: 0
Default

Sweet, nvm my question then, you got the timings all set up.

Let me know it goes at the track! I'm pretty curious to hear about the different spark maps and performance.
zzyx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 05:47 PM   #32
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pinellas park Fl
Posts: 308
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzyx7 View Post
Sweet, nvm my question then, you got the timings all set up.

Let me know it goes at the track! I'm pretty curious to hear about the different spark maps and performance.
Ill be leaving within an hr and ill be posting back once i get home.

And should be on the dyno saturday and we will have hard #s then.
92Miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 05:51 PM   #33
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Try to start your pulls as low in the RPM range as possible. Datalog EVERY run. Try my map if you wish.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 12:50 AM   #34
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pinellas park Fl
Posts: 308
Total Cats: 1
Default

Well the track was fun, i sucked at shifting tonight but its been a while and alot on my mind.

Using the map that peaks at 34* i was able to get my best time.

Missed 3rd though as you can tell by my trap speed.
2.1 60ft ever so slight bog, may be able to get a 2.05.
6.23 330ft
9.84 1/8th mile
68mph

My second best also on 34*
2.31 60ft spun
6.38 330ft
9.86 1/8th mile
70mph

I think if i could have gotten a good clean run with a 2.1 60ft and not missed a gear i could have done a 9.65.

But its still faster then it was.
92Miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 12:46 AM   #35
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,865
Total Cats: 493
Default

Reworked the top of my spark table as I'm moving up to more boost in the immediate future. Also changed the resolution for all the rows over 100 kpa to a max of 210 (15.9 psi) as I am planning on not going over 12 psi for a long long time. Thought I would update here.

-Ryan
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 01:44 AM   #36
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 58
Total Cats: 0
Default

Just so i know what my spark map needs to look like, keep in mind im deployed atm and havnt been able to install my ms on my 99. I plan on running 12psi on 550cc injectors. What should i be shooting for as far as spark map. Not trying to jack the thread there just seems to be alot of knowledge in this thread.
hbrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2009, 12:58 PM   #37
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pinellas park Fl
Posts: 308
Total Cats: 1
Default

Sorry pat but im gonna say you were wrong about that kind of timing.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t31516/#post368480
92Miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 01:12 AM   #38
!!! NOT CONFIRMED !!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North Port, FL
Posts: 52
Total Cats: 0
Default

So that's why I've been coughing up my lungs every time I drive the car.
LostSoulMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 01:16 AM   #39
!!! NOT CONFIRMED !!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North Port, FL
Posts: 52
Total Cats: 0
Default

plus I welded up a new exhaust to it
LostSoulMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 12-15-2017 09:00 PM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:10 PM.