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Old 07-23-2009, 01:16 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
thats why i suggested getting it to idle and then pulling the plugs and injectors one by one, seeing if one or two or many might not be firing/squirting.
Well I did that with the coils and one by one noticed a chance in engine behavior. They're all sparking. Injectors on the other hand I didn't have a good enough idle to tell for sure. Do need to replace my injector harness though because I noticed a few wires were exposed on #3's connector, the jacket was pulled back on them or something? Still seemed to make connection though. Hard to tell. Will try that again tomorrow with a pig rich *** map and see if that makes any difference or not I suppose.

ScottFW: I'll defiantly give that one a shot too, but it makes no sense why my car needs so damn much fuel to run even remotely well while boosted cars use the same IN BOOST as my map gives N/A!
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Old 07-23-2009, 03:05 AM   #22
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ScottFW: I'll defiantly give that one a shot too, but it makes no sense why my car needs so damn much fuel to run even remotely well while boosted cars use the same IN BOOST as my map gives N/A!
Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying so pardon me if you already know this, but you cannot just look at the raw numbers in your VE table and assume you're dumping more fuel into your motor than somebody else whose VE table numbers are lower. MS takes reqfuel into account when determining how much fuel to inject. If someone else has a VE table for a 1.6 (which it must be if it has a reqfuel of 10.2) then your VEs will have to be a bunch higher on a 1.8, because I see from the .msqs you posted that you haven't changed the reqfuel value.

With your smaller stock injectors you could also have higher VE table numbers but actually be injecting less fuel than someone with 460s or 550s with lower VE numbers, depending how reqfuel was scaled. Bottom line, there are other factors involved and the raw VE numbers don't tell you how much fuel you're actually injecting. They can give you an indication of relative fueling across the range of operation on your engine, but there are a few variables that confound any direct comparison between cars of the VE numbers alone.

Now if you were comparing pulse widths with another similar car (same engine setup, injector flow rate, fuel pressure, etc) and you needed much bigger pulse widths at 70 kPa than the other guy at 150 kPa while turning the same rpm at the same IAT, AFR, etc, then I'd be mighty surprised.

Not sure how much tuning you've done before, but my experience is that it took a couple nights of driving, logging and MLV'ing to have the VE table roughed in and the car running merely "acceptably." It just doesn't happen after two or three logging sessions. I've probably got 40-50 (maybe more?) cycles of logging & tuning between street and track to get mine where it is now, so that I don't feel compelled to bring the laptop with me every time I go for a drive.
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Old 07-23-2009, 03:48 AM   #23
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I assumed Scott set my required fuel before he sent me that msq, I did notice that my required fuel was different. Tried that tonight, changing it to like 12.3 for reqfuel and made zero difference. About the only change it made which was readily obvious the idle map went from 54 to 33 using his msq. (Edit: I just remembered that I never set the required fuel BEFORE I tried to tune with log viewer..bet that makes a difference..) I know the raw fuel numbers in teh VE table don't indicate the exact amount of fuel going in, but I do know that its been pretty normal if one of those values on my table says like, you know, 120 I expect the AFR to be pegged at 7:1...

From what I recall however, I should be able to use another miata guy's fuel map without much trouble doing nothing more than changing required fuel and doing a little bit of tuning to compensate for differences in motors, turbos, etc...



I've been ******* with this since Jan 2008 with very little success. There HAS to be something broken with this piece of ****. Thats less than 1/3rd of my logs I've taken and run through megalogviewer, and not a single one of those is less than 10mb in size. Still hasn't produced **** worth using. Its either PIG *** rich or so lean it won't make the car go.

Please don't take this as a rude reply or anything, I'm just completely and totally out of ideas and openly admitting I've no idea what the hell I'm doing I guess. Really I don't care anymore, just want the damn thing to freaking work. Even approaching just paying someone to do this **** for me because its starting to get pretty obvious I can't do it myself. Really am wondering if there is any hardware damage to my megasquirt left over from dropping that piece of solder inside..

Swear to god, I have the worst luck with electronics. Just recently spent 2 weeks dicking with this 2 way radio I pieced together and programmed. Had it working like a champ, got a remote control unit cable for it and smoked the piece of **** within an hour. The remote cable has 2 power inputs for +12 volts, but if its in dash mount the rear of teh radio has a +12 input from ignition.. that ignition wire came off and scraped across the chassis when I was moving it off the desk to finish programming. After it quit working I pulled the radio apart and found there had been FLAME inside the radio. There went $160 bucks and 2 weeks of my life.

I might cut out of work early tomorrow and dick with this thing more. First thing I'll do is try loading your VE table, target table, spark table, and make sure I set my required fuel properly then see what happens. Will also make sure I check the injectors to be sure they're all firing.

Need some education on a few different things:
  1. My LC1 is set for default output 0-5v .5-1.5 lambda. Is this optimal? I've noticed some people change it but I'm not sure why and if I might benefit from it?
  2. I have MegaTune Configuration set for Default LC-1 settings
  3. That being said, Are the settings I have in MegaTune correct for EGO Correction? EGO Switch Point (V): 2.352 volts, Ignition Events: 24, Controller Step: 1, Controller Authority: 10, Active above: 160, Active above: 1500rpm, EGO Correction: Ign Pulses
  4. In MegaLogViewer: Calculated Fields I have Wideband O2-AFR set for "Innovate LC1 Default" and Wideband O2-Lambda also set for "Innovate LC-1 Default" is that correct? One or the other?
  5. Do you use the MegaTune Target AFR Table in MegaLogViewer, or a larger table like some other guys in place of the "Default Target" table?
  6. When is it appropriate to change from Easy, Normal, Hard, Very Hard when running the Analysis?
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:27 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
My LC1 is set for default output 0-5v .5-1.5 lambda. Is this optimal? I've noticed some people change it but I'm not sure why and if I might benefit from it?
I have MegaTune Configuration set for Default LC-1 settings
Combine these settings and you have everything OK. Some earlier versions of MegaTune had problems with the LC-1 default file being off, but this is fixed now.

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That being said, Are the settings I have in MegaTune correct for EGO Correction? EGO Switch Point (V): 2.352 volts, Ignition Events: 24, Controller Step: 1, Controller Authority: 10, Active above: 160, Active above: 1500rpm, EGO Correction: Ign Pulses
Looks OK.

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In MegaLogViewer: Calculated Fields I have Wideband O2-AFR set for "Innovate LC1 Default" and Wideband O2-Lambda also set for "Innovate LC-1 Default" is that correct? One or the other?
This is correct.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
Need some education on a few different things:
  • My LC1 is set for default output 0-5v .5-1.5 lambda. Is this optimal? I've noticed some people change it but I'm not sure why and if I might benefit from it?
  • I have MegaTune Configuration set for Default LC-1 settings
  • That being said, Are the settings I have in MegaTune correct for EGO Correction? EGO Switch Point (V): 2.352 volts, Ignition Events: 24, Controller Step: 1, Controller Authority: 10, Active above: 160, Active above: 1500rpm, EGO Correction: Ign Pulses
  • In MegaLogViewer: Calculated Fields I have Wideband O2-AFR set for "Innovate LC1 Default" and Wideband O2-Lambda also set for "Innovate LC-1 Default" is that correct? One or the other?
Agree with Matt, that stuff looks fine to me.
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
  • Do you use the MegaTune Target AFR Table in MegaLogViewer, or a larger table like some other guys in place of the "Default Target" table?
I used a 12x12 AFR table for a while, but now I have MLV do its adjusting based on the 8x8 table from Megatune. There's nothing inherently wrong with using a 12x12 target table that you create in MLV, but if there's any discrepancy in the interpolation of values between the two tables, your EGO correction while you drive will be fighting the tuning you did with MLV. I experienced that once and the car drove like crap during cruise. It's simpler to just use the 8x8, and I don't need a larger table for AFR targets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
  • When is it appropriate to change from Easy, Normal, Hard, Very Hard when running the Analysis?
This is getting to the meat of what I think could be the problem, given that you've done a bunch of tuning and have gone from lean to pig rich between tuning sessions.

Stoichiometry can be touchy. Have you ever done titrations or pH'ed a solution in a chemistry class? You have a basic (as opposed to acidic) solution, and you try to get the pH more neutral by adding concentrated hydrochloric acid. You add quite a lot of acid and the basic solution slowly becomes more neutral, but when you're at the point of neutrality, just another drop or two of the acid will swing the pH way the hell off neutral very quickly. It is easy to overshoot the mark. It's the same with tuning your car, and my experience is that it's real easy to overshoot with MLV, so you go from pig rich to super lean in one logging/tuning session. The exact same thing happened to me when I was learning to tune.

If you have it on easy or normal MLV will often suggest huge changes and have you overshooting the mark. Just set it to very hard. But don't blindly accept the changes to the VE table that it suggests. If you mouse over a cell, it will tell you what the old value was so you can see how much it's changing. A change of 10 is HUGE. With my table pretty well dialed in, if I take a cell in the VE table and add 5 it will run really rich, and if I subtract 5 it will run very lean, so when MLV makes a change of 10 it can swing you from one extreme to the other.

Even on very hard, it still may suggest changes that are too large. Mouse over each changed cell and manually edit it so the change is no greater than 5 in either direction. Do a couple logs/tunes like that and you should be creeping towards your target and getting incrementally better, rather than overshooting back and forth. As it gets more dialed in, make sure it's only adjusting 2-3 points in areas of the map where the car already runs okay. Then as it gets really close, only allow 1-2 points at a time. I wish there was a way to define settings more stringent than "very hard" but I don't think there is.

Tuning of the part-throttle area of the map (40-75-ish kPa) will be more touchy than tuning the WOT (~100 kPa) cells. This is because at part throttle you've got less air coming through the throttle body, so the amount of fuel injected has a greater effect on the AFR than it does when you've got more air coming in. You can get the WOT cells tuned pretty quickly but spend weeks or months dicking around with the part throttle cells, a point here, a point there. Fun!
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:00 PM   #26
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Scott, Scott.. Scott here.


Okay I used Brain's MSQ as a template, double checked EGO settings, changed my required fuel to 13.1, Loaded ScottFW's VE, AFR, and Spark tables.

Pulled out the o2 sensor, reset the heater and free air calibration. Put it all back together and fired it up. Cold start was slightly rough, but I think it'll be pretty easy to smooth out in a couple places. Let the car come to full warmup and was completely and totally shocked to see the car idling at a near SOLID 16:1!! Went for a drive and was also very shocked to see how close the table was for my car, it runs great. Decided to tinker a little and loaded up Hustlers psychotic and scary spark table on a 90 degree ambient day . Car ran pretty well overall but theres a couple little hiccups in light load low mid RPM that I need to figure out. Noticed out of the corner of my eye the map goes slightly lean at the point when it 'bumps' or misfires..

Logged about 30 minutes of driving and came home to check on the log, then run through the viewer on Very hard setting. Max cell change was 7, so I looked it over a bit and decided to save it and we'll try it later. Kinda warm outside and I don't wanna go back out for a while now after spending all evening last night replacing my muffler and this morning tinkering.

Man all along... was such a simple problem! If I'm ever around Virginia will defiantly have to look you guys up and buy a few beers!
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