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Old 02-11-2006, 12:05 PM   #1
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Default Megasquirt in a 1999 and 2004

Hello,
first post here so go easy please.

I've got a '99 and my friend has an '04; were going DIY turbo this summer.
I'm very interested in using a megasquirt as a standalone, I'm willing to learn what I need but haven't read about anyone doing it on a NB yet.

I've done quiet a bit of reading on the megasquirt site but want to be sure it's possible w/out replacing the ignition and fuel system.

So, my question is: has anyone done this yet? If not what do you guys think about compatibility?

Thanks for your help!
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Old 02-11-2006, 05:34 PM   #2
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there might be some issues with megasquirt and vvt. I havent seen any NB's that have been squirted yet. Doesnt mean its not possible....
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Old 02-11-2006, 10:00 PM   #3
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Aside from the VVT, I think you could use them. The biggest thing would be determining ignition timing? hall sensor? If its like the 96's you'll be ok, CAS dual trigger, IIRC your different but maybe just adding a 36:1 wheel on the crank no bfd... you'll need the ignition trigger for RPM & RPM is need to trigger fuel only. By summer maybe they'll have the MS II ready for you....otherwise it'll be v 3.0 w/ MS I...
If you can hold on to your shorts for a few...updates evolve everyday for MS II...

BTW if you go w v 3.0 MS1, you can update later on to MS II if you want to experiment w/ 1 before squirting all over the other....
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Old 02-12-2006, 03:36 PM   #4
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Smile

I'm pretty sure, having looked at the service manual, that the CAS is a hall sensor (since it looks like a plain steel plate bolted to the crank.) I'm pretty new to the control side of an engine (but not to electronic controls in general) and don't know exactly how the ECU (or megasquirt) identifies TDC from the hall sensor.

There is also a cam angle sensor supposedly that is used to detect misfires to comply w/ OBD II; I wonder if I can use this for anything?

Maybe I'm crazy (or dumb) but there must be some distinction on the CAS sensor plate to indicate TDC (like a big gap or something) that megasquirt should be taught to "see." I'm guessing that the hall sensor produces an output singnal that looks like a repeating square wave where each wave, and the ECU counts the waves until TDC. Is this about right? Is this how engine RPM is determined also?

If I can go w/ a megasquirt then I'll wait for megasquirt II (which I thought was already available.)

I'm planning on using the onboard MAP sensor, installing an OEM wideband O2 sensor (VW if I remember) and as many temp and pres sensors as seems necessary. Anyone have any experience w/ OEM wideband sensors? I'm trying to do this on the cheap (relatively.)

Is it straightforward to drive the injectors directly from the megasquirt? Is the injection timing typically independent of crank angle?

Does the megasquirt fire each spark plug independently or does it use a paired "wasted spark" configuration? I guess it dosn't matter.

Thanks for everyones patience, I'd be happy to be a giunea pig but I'd like to know everything I can first.

Edit: Sorry, one last thing; does the MS get wired directly to the ignition coils?
Edit2.0: I'm a monkey, that's probably a variable reluctor sensor...

Last edited by fluke; 02-12-2006 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 02-12-2006, 05:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluke
I'm pretty sure, having looked at the service manual, that the CAS is a hall sensor (since it looks like a plain steel plate bolted to the crank.) I'm pretty new to the control side of an engine (but not to electronic controls in general) and don't know exactly how the ECU (or megasquirt) identifies TDC from the hall sensor.

There is also a cam angle sensor supposedly that is used to detect misfires to comply w/ OBD II; I wonder if I can use this for anything?

Maybe I'm crazy (or dumb) but there must be some distinction on the CAS sensor plate to indicate TDC (like a big gap or something) that megasquirt should be taught to "see." I'm guessing that the hall sensor produces an output singnal that looks like a repeating square wave where each wave, and the ECU counts the waves until TDC. Is this about right? Is this how engine RPM is determined also?

If I can go w/ a megasquirt then I'll wait for megasquirt II (which I thought was already available.)

I'm planning on using the onboard MAP sensor, installing an OEM wideband O2 sensor (VW if I remember) and as many temp and pres sensors as seems necessary. Anyone have any experience w/ OEM wideband sensors? I'm trying to do this on the cheap (relatively.)

Is it straightforward to drive the injectors directly from the megasquirt? Is the injection timing typically independent of crank angle?

Does the megasquirt fire each spark plug independently or does it use a paired "wasted spark" configuration? I guess it dosn't matter.

Thanks for everyones patience, I'd be happy to be a giunea pig but I'd like to know everything I can first.

Edit: Sorry, one last thing; does the MS get wired directly to the ignition coils?
Edit2.0: I'm a monkey, that's probably a variable reluctor sensor...
You'll want a WBO2 for tunning, almost a pre-requisite... LC-1 seems popular, I use a ZT-2.
MSII is out, it's just the ignition code to run certain cars is still being written...You can run either sequential or batch firing for the injectors.
MS uses either crank or cam angle to fire the injectors. If you know anyone that has put a standalone, Tec, wolf, ir haltech on their 99+ they might have better info...

You can learn alot just building it, you'll need a 15 watt fine tip but its pretty easy to assemble.

You can add an OEM bosch LSU 5 wire WBO2 if you want, but with out a controller(ZT2 or LC-1) you'll be SOL trying to get it to work. I built a DIY WBO2, but the sensor new is between 2-4 hundred bucks...
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Old 02-12-2006, 06:58 PM   #6
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I'm a bit intimidated about soldering it together myself. I've done a fair bit of soldering but I'm afraid I'll do something wrong. You didn't have a lot of trouble sorting out what goes where and whatnot? Did you need to buy the stimulator to establish whether it was working or not?

I'm getting married this summer so anywhere I can save a few hundred dollars is awesome

Any advice on which DIY kit to get? There seem to be a couple on the market; I would like to upgrade to MSII later.
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Old 02-12-2006, 10:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluke
I'm a bit intimidated about soldering it together myself. I've done a fair bit of soldering but I'm afraid I'll do something wrong. You didn't have a lot of trouble sorting out what goes where and whatnot? Did you need to buy the stimulator to establish whether it was working or not?

I'm getting married this summer so anywhere I can save a few hundred dollars is awesome

Any advice on which DIY kit to get? There seem to be a couple on the market; I would like to upgrade to MSII later.
Maybe you should get an MS1 v.3 kit from diyautotune. they seem to package everything nicely so you know what component is what. I would reccomend you buy the stim so you can see that its all working fine on your laptop before you go threw the task of putting it in your car. Its better to find a mistake before you have wires hacked up everyware wondering exactly why the car wont start. diyautotune sells the MS1 v3 already built for 330 dollars which really is a steal for what you get.
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Old 02-14-2006, 01:28 PM   #8
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I bought my kit from glens garage, its probably the same kit DIY sells, everything labeled and and marked, al ot easier to assemble then one would think, the little only tricky part to the whole job a novice(and I am not an expert) is the little transistors, for some reason on the PCB boards the VIAS are pretty close together...
Dont forget the $5.00 cable...
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Old 02-14-2006, 09:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefe
I bought my kit from glens garage, its probably the same kit DIY sells, everything labeled and and marked, al ot easier to assemble then one would think, the little only tricky part to the whole job a novice(and I am not an expert) is the little transistors, for some reason on the PCB boards the VIAS are pretty close together...
Dont forget the $5.00 cable...
I'm going for it, thank god I'm walking distance to work

What's this $5 cable you speak of? Anyone have any insight as to the specifics of the NB?
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:14 PM   #10
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hes probably talking about the male-to-female DB9 cable that connects the MS to your laptop. you can pay like $6 when you buy it or pay $14 at radio shack if youre an idiot and forgot it like me.

If you're good at soldering and have the time, definately get it unassembled. Save like $150 I think.

Keep in mind that doing fuel only should be very easy. All you need is an rpm signal, no worries about TDC or anything. Taking over ignition will be more diffcicult though. HAve you asked about this on the MSEFI boards? They might be able to help. And as Jefe said, other standalone NB users could help also.

I'd recommend the MS1 v.3 board.
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:07 PM   #11
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I have the MS I v.30 board and would suggest that one as well. The 5 dollar cable is the db9 to db9 cable like Al said. (mine was ~8 w/shipping from Glen)...

189.00 for MS I Kit v3.0
5.00 for cable
3 1K resistors (DIY provides them for free???)--but you gotta tell them...
Stimulator? ~40???

$40 for the two GM sensors AIT and CLT (DIYautotune has them, glens didn't list them and I wouldn't bother w/ used from a JY even though probably free--40 is a cheap piece of mind that they are working correctly )

I believe if you replace R4 and R7 with 2.2K ohm resistors then you can use the miata AIT and CLT sensors, haven't tried it yet though...
My wire was free(left over from EM --actually half the price of the harness 18ga and lots of different colors

~235 to get started plus a 15 watt fine tip soldering iron and solder
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefe
$40 for the two GM sensors AIT and CLT (DIYautotune has them, glens didn't list them and I wouldn't bother w/ used from a JY even though probably free--40 is a cheap piece of mind that they are working correctly )
Where did you mount the sensors?
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Old 02-15-2006, 01:28 PM   #13
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I haven't mounted mine yet, might not need to, its a parallel install so I can retain OBDII.
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Old 02-15-2006, 01:33 PM   #14
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You ought to be able to keep you coolant sensor, but you will need to get an IAT sensor. You do want to remove the MAF, right?
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Old 02-15-2006, 03:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Hounos
You ought to be able to keep you coolant sensor, but you will need to get an IAT sensor. You do want to remove the MAF, right?
Yeah, I plan on removing the MAF, the MAF runs the FP (w/2 relays) and the AIT, but I haven't gotten that far yet...
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:15 PM   #16
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I have this nearly overwhelming desire to order the MSII, this is a bad idea right? It looks like I can go w/ a MS-I for now and upgrade to MSII later for nearly the same cost.

Does the '99 NB have the same injector setup as the NA? Can I use the same approach when wiring it up?

Thanks guys.
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Old 02-15-2006, 09:02 PM   #17
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From all I have researched w/ the v3.0 board you can upgrade to MSII from MS I for ~80.00.

http://www.glensgarage.com/catalog/p...products_id=51
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