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Old 03-07-2010, 10:25 PM   #1
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Hi, I would like to know if the MS boostcontroler solenoid is worth it, compared to a Turbosmart TEE,

Thanks
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:26 PM   #2
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not unless you have MS-II
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:47 PM   #3
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I have one fairly specific grievance with the design concept of the MS's EBC system in general, and this applies to all of the units.

The MAP sensor is after the throttle body.

What this means is that in any situation where you are using part-throttle to modulate boost, the wastegate will remain completely shut, with the turbo attempting to make ∞ PSI against the throttle plate.

This can, in theory, be avoided by the use of TPS-controlled EBC targets, though in reality, how many of us are willing to put in the amount of dyno time that it would take to properly tune that system?
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:51 PM   #4
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I was myself thinking of controlling boost this way. If this isn't the best, what is?
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:52 PM   #5
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so it means to go Turbosmart?
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:10 PM   #6
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What's wrong with a plain-ole MBC?
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:12 PM   #7
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avoiding boost peak?

the turbosmart TEE is a manual boost controller :P

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Old 03-07-2010, 11:25 PM   #8
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Needlessly excessive. Most of us, myself included, are running ball-and-spring style controllers. Mine's a TurboXS BC-HPBC, which gives me stable boost with maybe 0.5 PSI of onset overshoot. And I'd wager that I spent more money than was necessary here.
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:28 PM   #9
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sweet, good to know, thanks alot for the quick info ;-)
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:35 PM   #10
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Ball-n-spring here, no complaints. It's a helluva lot more reliable than the MS's boost control was.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
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not unless you have MS-II
i do in fact have MS2, so hopefully it works out well for me...we'll see in a couple months
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
This can, in theory, be avoided by the use of TPS-controlled EBC targets, though in reality, how many of us are willing to put in the amount of dyno time that it would take to properly tune that system?

I've been running tps based boost control on my unit for a while...not sure what's the big deal on tuning.

Currently I use my MBC to control full boost and the solenoid is run in parallel, when I want to run wastegate I can depower the solenoid which bypasses the MBC and the wastegate opens early. If I only still want wastegate boost at 50% throttle I keep my DC% set to 0% below 50% TPS. It works well and took about 5 minutes to setup my table outside of the car to get it right...
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:39 PM   #13
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As far as MS's closed loop boost goes, people having problems with it should talk to wes kiser in the msextra forum about how to plumb their solenoids for better response, and about tuning.

He's got my MS3 closed-loop boost control working REALLY well. (It's slightly different from ms2's boost control in that the "P" term will now respond to target changes, results in needing to retune the PID parameters, but looking at his datalogs, it's worth the time).

Ken
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Old 03-30-2010, 03:33 PM   #14
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I'd be very curious to see that. Don't tempt me with MS-III stuff, I just got MS-II working. :-P

One possible alternative: MBC set a few PSI above target in the IC piping, just ahead of the throttle plate (trust me, a few extra PSI yields some great throttle response, without the loss of boost at the top end associated with taking the signal pre-intercooler housing) in parallel with an EBC in the manifold.

Differing boost targets would be awesome, I wouldn't poo-poo it as quickly as our Esteemed Moderator has, but will admit it would take some work (less, I think, than tuning the map without it, actually?)

Anyway, the parallel idea is probable one of the better ways to go, though I'm not sure how much havoc it would play with any PID routines looking for a response and getting none.

Ken, can you comment on this, or perhaps suggest some limits you could put on to help this function well?
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Old 03-30-2010, 03:43 PM   #15
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I heard ms-iii is cool...
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:44 PM   #16
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I say its worth it if you get it tuned properly. Mine was fine but i found out i had a boost leak while tuning when i got home...so i fixed and it spiked over 21lbs...so i just went out and bought a Forge MBC. This may be a dumb question but could i route a vac line all the way inside by the dash and put my mbc beside or under the dash and run the other vac line back to the turbo? Would that **** up the boost settings?
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I heard ms-iii is cool...
When the CPU isn't fried :P

It's a bit after the horse has bolted, but FWIW I installed a cap on my MSII and it stopped me revving above 5k so I took it off. I don't see why you should need it either, just build the 2nd Opto circuit and be done with it.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:42 AM   #18
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When the CPU isn't fried :P

I don't see why you should need it either, just build the 2nd Opto circuit and be done with it.

if the CPU wasn't fried
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:56 AM   #19
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Ha ha great news Brain

My previous statement still stands tho, dump the cap and build a 2nd opto circuit.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:42 AM   #20
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yeah well, maybe after it's repaired...
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