Megasquirt vs Microsquirt for my rebuild. - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-31-2013, 02:12 PM   #21
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total reqiring of the car. nothing is being reused.

New chassis harness, new engine harness (which the primary reason I chose Microsquirt. I dont want to have to mess around building the actual ECU, and you can get the 8' long harness)

Chassis wiring is bare minimum- headlights/tail lights, brake lights, rad fan, wipers (hard wired-no controller), boat blower motor for defog and maybe a 12v outlet to run an inverter on to keep my laptop going.

The powertrain will have bare minimum as well. Microsquirt wires, alternator to battery and starter.

Going to move the battery (lithium cell) to the trans tunnel right at the firewall. the battery hold down bracket will also be an ECU mount. The relay/fuse and switch panel will be mounted facing the driver somewhere close to where the radio would mount.

I think for the time being I have a good handle on the microsquirt and chassis wiring, but I will likely have more questions at some point.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:39 PM   #22
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New chassis harness, new engine harness (which the primary reason I chose Microsquirt. I dont want to have to mess around building the actual ECU, and you can get the 8' long harness)
Oh.

Well, in that case, consider the purchase of an MS3Pro as an alternative: MS3-Pro Standalone Engine Management System by DIYAutoTune.com

It's a little more money, but it's worth it IMO. You can run the four ignition coils separately, you can run the injectors in full sequential mode, and being based on the MS3 CPU, it's the one that's getting the majority of attention insofar as software development. (It can do all the NB bells and whistles like VVT, alternator control, etc.)

You get the same ruggedized connections, the same pre-made harness cables, etc.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:54 PM   #23
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Thanks for the suggestion. It goes against the whole principle of what this cars goal is-to be the cheapest yet reliable lapper out there.

the ms3 pro is $1,200 with the harnesses as quoted from the link. the microsquirt will do more than I need and is ~350 with harness (3.5x less, not just a little bit)

Im not using idle control, im not using boost control, i dont need VVT control, bells and whistles sound like a lot of work.

Im counting about 20-25 wires on the whole car, I have the most basic miata engine... I dont have unrealistic power goals and I dont want to always be messing with features. Less in this case, is more.

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Old 10-31-2013, 03:04 PM   #24
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That's cool. Just thought I'd bring it up since you mentioned COPs (and I was running one on my last car, and it was utterly awesome, and since DIY practically gave it to me, I feel like I'm obligated to shill it at every opportunity.)
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:18 PM   #25
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I mean, If DIY wanted to donate the pro (even for the price of the micro) I wouldnt have a problem with that.

For the time being, Im going to just get a micro (probably in the new year TBH) and run it that way.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:53 PM   #26
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For the time being, Im going to just get a micro (probably in the new year TBH) and run it that way.
That's cool- it'll get the job done fine. Just thought you might want to be one of the cool kids is all.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:15 PM   #27
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Driving it would be cooler than having cool parts on it.
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Old 10-31-2013, 05:10 PM   #28
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I guess another question based on the keep it simple, keep costs low...

Do I really NEED a wideband perminently installed, or can I just lock in the tune on the dyno and rock out?

Im only going to run 2 guages that I will monitor (some of you will huff and puff with me saying that LOL) RPM and water temp. AKA im not going to bother reading a WB O2 when Im ripping around the track, though it might make a little sense to have just for datalogging.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:00 PM   #29
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Do I really NEED a wideband perminently installed, or can I just lock in the tune on the dyno and rock out?
You do not need a wideband permanently installed.

A few years ago, I'd have never admitted this. And on a turbo or S/C car, I'd still hold to that advice. But after finally figuring out how to do it myself, I'd say that you can do the initial tune with a wideband (especially if you're doing it all on a dyno), then revert to an OEM-style 4 wire narrowband. Run it closed-loop in cruise (for a street car), and open-loop everywhere else. Then just use common sense.

Now, with an ECU as complex as MS, there are a lot of variables that make a permanently installed wideband NICE to have. These are mostly corrections (warmup, IAT, and so on) which can have startlingly large effects on your AFR, especially at idle and low-load. And even on a track car, I would prefer to have a wideband just for logging and occasional reality-checking. I mean, we're talking about $190 for the Innovate LC2, or $200 for the MTX-L.

But I'm not going to be an extremist and say that you will surely grenade your engine without it.
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:28 AM   #30
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we're talking about $190 for the Innovate LC2, or $200 for the MTX-L.
.
thats a lot for a $2,000 car! lol
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:37 AM   #31
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thats a lot for a $2,000 car! lol
Have I mentioned how I paid $800 for the '90 that I had a wideband and an MS3Pro in? (And FatCat Bilsteins, and R1R tires, and...) The car itself was literally the cheapest part of that build (assuming I'd paid retail for everything that went into it.)
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:33 PM   #32
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You may not have seen my build thread...

I have a bare shell and I'm limiting my investment into the race project to $2000
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:42 AM   #33
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If I wanted to run a VVT engine with VVT control... what is the bare minimum to get that working?

ms3 as such?
MegaSquirt-III Engine Management System w/PCB3 - UnAssembled Kit with black case DIYAutoTune.com
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:19 PM   #34
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You will want the ms3x for vvt.
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:19 AM   #35
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Surely you must know that standalone VVT control is available with the VVTuner so you don't need to upgrade the ecu to one that natively supports VVT control. You can have VVT control using the factory ecu+VVTuner. Of course any ecu that natively controls VVT is going to be superior to one that doesn't but given your budget, a Microsquirt+VVTuner is maybe $100 cheaper. I don't see how adding a VVT engine is going to be in your $2000 budget though unless you use some creative accounting like the GRM $2K challenge.

Also, using COP for this may be money better spent somewhere else in the budget. I'm not trying to dissuade you of using COP, I just don't think there is any appreciable power gain or any durability gains over the factory coils at factory power levels. I went with COP on mine after I discovered a burnt tower on one of the '01 coils most likely due to installer error. I figured given the cost of swapping over to COP ($160 for 4 coils, $20 for coil connectors, $10 for new sparkplugs, $40 for coil drivers) I would go with the cool factor of COP. Then again, if you already have the LS coils, it makes sense to install them and get whatever benefit they provide.
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:49 AM   #36
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In terms of VVT control I understand the standalone VVT controller. it is quite expensive though and was wondering what the bare minimum was for ecu control of VVT system.

being that you need the extra board and wiring over the Microsquirt adds up pretty fast. though if i build it myself, its not REALLY that much more. About $100 over the microsquirt- but obviously I will be needing to solder the boards and **** that i didnt want to have to do with microsquirt.






As far as cops are concerned... it may or may not be an upgrade to use truck lsX coils but it will be far easier to integrate into my wire harness being that Im building it from scratch. The coils have internal ignitors and being able to remove the external ignitor from the harness will simplify and clean things up. I can likely find a set used on KIJIJI or at an auto wreckers for ~20 bones.



The VVT engine that I am getting is moderately priced being that it isnt assembled. It also is coming with spare parts over and above the standard engine that I can deduct from the purchase price. I assume VVT actuators can get pretty pricey and 3.9 final drives can probably get a few bones too.
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:33 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
In terms of VVT control I understand the standalone VVT controller. it is quite expensive though and was wondering what the bare minimum was for ecu control of VVT system.

being that you need the extra board and wiring over the Microsquirt adds up pretty fast. though if i build it myself, its not REALLY that much more. About $100 over the microsquirt- but obviously I will be needing to solder the boards and **** that i didnt want to have to do with microsquirt.
If you're interested in a solder it yourself VVTuner kit (unassembled), send us an email: [email protected]

Another option could be MS3-Pro Module. It offers the same features of MS3-Pro EMS, but without an enclosure. You could easily mount it inside a stock Miata ECU box for a stealth install.
MS3-Pro Module DIYAutoTune.com
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:09 AM   #38
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So... I have narrowed down my setup (different from O.P) a little more and have a question more tune based.

Will a base map for a MSPNP (MS2) work properly on my microsquirt assuming that I choose the proper ECU type in Tunerstudio?



I have a bit of referencing to do with my setup to get the proper sensor calibrations, but thats another story. My final setup.
'99 head with '01 bottom - no VVT
'01 throttle body with IAC
'92 CAS
Microsquirt v3.0 wired in with flying lead

WB o2 to be determined later on if i think it is worthwhile...
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:59 PM   #39
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Basic sanity check here.


My setup is basically a high compression '99 running microsquirt with the purple NB injectors, 92 CAS and a Honda Map sensor (because free and not boosting for now)

1. What MSPNP map would you suggest I start with? There will be some oddities changing stuff around. (CAS config I believe is the biggest)

2.Configring the MAP sensor. once I change the MAP sensor to something else somewhere down the road, will I need to retune any engine parameters besides the map sensor config?
-slightly remembering AEM was a pain to do this for.. changing map parameters automatically changed all of the RPM breakpoints for all maps and modifiers (which is why im asking)



Im just playing with tunerstudio for the first time, so im coming up with some new questions.
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:58 PM   #40
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Why are you using the 92 cas and not the 99 cam/crank sensors?
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