Megasquirt3x question
 

I bought a MS3X From 18PSI a while back, that he used it in a 2001 VVT MX5. I own a 2005 Mazdaspeed MX5 and was told the harness is the same except for the VVT part, mine's Turbo and will need a few wires repined.

Spoke to DIY and was given a MS3-Pro pin list showing function and pin numbers. I emailed a few time till I was able to get things going. So far so good, then e-mail traffic died and I was on my own. After following the list of things to do 1- 16, 16 being the start tuning part, I began to tune.

Thinking back I should of made note of where all the pins were when I got the ecu and harness, in case I ever need to move back. lesson learned.

Cold starting was now set and auto-tune was done through all gears. Issues so far were High flow fans kicked on it killed the car, so disconnected one to relieve the load and set rpm to 1500. this seems to of fixed the dying part.

Drove 80miles to work and was getting auto-tune done most of the way. Last 5 miles I saved and burned into the ecu. Noticed at this time my laptop was about dead as the inverter never charged, shut down and pulled into work. Parked and seen my inverter said fault, checked all connections and was all good. Bought a new inverter and immediately after hooking it up gave a fault indication. Really straight forward goes straight top the battery and connects.

2 inverters saying Fault and 1 was known to be working good before hooking up the MS3X. Now on the way home battery light poped up and rough running started, luckly auto part store was near by and said my battery was dead, purchased a new one. Hot starts are a pain to get going but when it did start it was good and idle was good. No battery indicator was lit and took off home.

Drove the car to work and after 3 days, battery was dead again. Auto-parts swapped out the battery and I purchased a new alternator. 4 days later I was dead again. I checked relays, fuses, wires and think its the MS3X.

Anyone have the wiring for the Alternator in a 2005 Mazdaspeed MX5 and possibly what pins on the MS3X control the Alternator?

That's a really long story.

In TS, basic/load settings, alternator control (who would have thought to call it that!), control output.

Settings and a wiring diagram at trubokitty.com

I will see if I can get a pic up, but yes that would of been awesome but it's not there.

Click Basic/load settings and none say anything alternator related.

Why does it say MS1 firmware in the header at the top?

Are you sure that we're looking at the tune on your MS3? I see MS1 in the title-bar, which would make me think it's not correct for an MS3. Of course if the firmware is ancient it may just report MS1 even if it's MS3- I haven't been around long enough to have witnessed the advent of MS3.

The FW you're showing in the screenshot does not control alternator. If the MS was on a 2001 car before it may have an additional alternator controller board in the housing, or a circuit built in the prototyping area of the main board.

In order to at least try and help you more, we need MSQs and MSLs.

I am still learning and was told this was the way to go (MS3X) and after a set back I had to pack things up and park it. At the time there was no PNP for a Mazdaspeed MX5. So I need different software?

How about some pics of the megasquirt in question.

It's not about software/firmware between the different versions of MS. The firmware is for the hardware version you have so there is no getting around that.

So you want a pic of the ECU in the car?

Looked all over the box for any stickers and found zippo. Mosquitos tearing me up so calling it a day today. I will read up and see what I need to do. So far I've connected successfully and been running around with almost zero drivability issues. Fans and alternator are the biggest issue I have. Since the car had been in storage for the past 2 years, that was the last time I touched MS anything. So sorry in advance, I'm a noob at this.

So that picture looks indeed like it's an MS3 and very likely an MS3X. If it has two DB35 connectors in the rear that are both hooked up, it's MS3X.
Still need tune and log to help more.

Yes MS3X I believe its 2 DB37 connectors but been a while since I counted the pins. I just swapped laptops since my last one the battery is shot I will try and get it to you tomorrow. I gotta get up for work in 5 hours so kinda short on time.

Thanks for all the help so far.

Are you using stock fans? I had a lot of trouble with Spal fans killing my car for months before figuring that out with MSPNPRO. MSM controls fans differently than the rest of miatas with stock ecu both turn on simultaneously and have two speeds. I had to go back and use FM's Hydra instructions for the wiring and then get one to be controlled by fan control settings and one by programmable on/off outputs. If you think it will help I can share settings when you get car starting and running better.

Not stock fans, I have FM's crossflow radiator with 2 high flow fans. They don't say Spal but look like them. I was thinking along those lines. Set up a delay start like 10 seconds away have the 2nd fan kick on. I would be willing to try what your saying, just say what I need to get.

Thought I was on a roll this morning, had both laptops hooked up, transfered all I could over to the newer one and took off to work. Now that I'm here at work, I'm looking for the last msq or any of my tuning sessions and all I get is basic examples. I must of missed a file containing what the last tune was and previous progression tunes to go back to incase I messed up. When I get back home in 12hrs I will reload the msq and share. I do see in the examples ms3, and under basic/load settings there is alternator settings. So do I have to start all over from the beginning on MS3 if everything is on set up MS1?

OP, keep in mind I'm not knowledgeable about the different versions and firmware updates, and your Megasquirt is different but I did struggle with this exact problem for far too long, so hopefully this is beneficial. Just remember where you started so you can go back if need be. I also have the FM Crossflow with the big fans. When I initially installed them I was running on the factory ECU, and had not yet upgraded to MS. So I followed the instructions for factory ECU https://www.flyinmiata.com/support/i...roud_hints.pdf. In order to get things working, I had to go back follow their instructions for Hydra 2.7 wiring, which requires wiring one of the two fans differently. It talks about the big fan and small fan, and with the Crossflow they both look the same. I looked at my old stock fans and concluded I needed to leave the passenger side fan wiring alone and made changes to driver's side fan. Then I set things up in Megasquirt like this: https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ff7c07f534.png
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...cf45825385.png
Now the smaller fan turns on at 195 degrees and shuts off at 192 due to the hysteresis. The bigger fan comes on at 198 degrees with some idle up and delay, whereas previously both were controlled by the Fan Control setting through Injector I, and the draw from simultaneous engagement was just too much at once. Good luck, hope this helps!

I don't think you can use an MS1 setup on the MS3 (this is a bit conjecture on my side, I've never tried this). How certain are you that what you see in Tunerstudio is actually what is happening in your MS? Are you getting a connection and life readings from the sensors?

Ty Drizzay I will look into FM hydra stuff on them fans and set up like yours.

As for the tune I do believe this is all done on ms1 version. The guy that talked me out of the Xede that I was running at the time, said he was not fimiliar with the ms3x but did have a ms1 he ran on his mx5 non msm. Also said these are very similar and after destroying my engine, I pulled everything out of his shop and threw into storage. I rebuilt the engine with forged internals, FM2 conversion, full FM exhaust, and decided to go with ID 1000cc injectors. MS3X was allready rewired and car was running b4 the incident happened. I later found out he did not follow the steps like timing, injector settings, and a few other settings were on that went needed. 18psi sent me his map and I used that as a starting point. Since the guy at the shop set me up I'm guessing he put ms1 since that's what he was use to.

When I get home tonight I will plug into the MS3X and pull what's on it and post it up. I'll have to read through the pdf cause its been a while since the last time I read through it. I want to make sure I don't mess anything up.

Did 18psi send you the whole tune (*.msq) file? If so, you may want to use that. I'm sure he was using MS3 code. Of course some ancillary stuff may be wired differently between 18psi and whatever the 'guy' did.
Is there anybody within driving distance who has experience with MS3? Looks like you may be in over your head and somebody with some experience could probably straighten you out in a few minutes to an hour.

Saw my name mentioned several times, so here I am. It's been many years so I'm trying to remember the details.
That looks like the ms3x that Braineak built for me. And yes I provided firmware/maps to all buyers of my previous MS units. In fact, I MIGHT still have both for this one if it's the ms3x that Brain built for my 01 that used an extension harness to mount it in the glovebox/pass airbag location.

In the DFW area I found in Arlington (15min. drive) Alamo Motorsports, and 2 other shops (1hr. Away). Alamo 2hr minimum at 250 an hour seems a bit steep for me at the moment. I'd like to tackle the project myself so I'm on par with how things work. I have time, and a 2nd car to drive so the issue at hand can be worked with a little know how and help from you guys.

I do have 18psi's msq on my other laptop and it's how I got most of the stuff figured out along with where this other guy goofed up on.

Glad u seen this 18, I was going to pm u tonight if I got home and couldn't get my stuff off the old laptop.

Yes it's the same one your talking about harness and all, except Brainiack had me move some pins to work in a MSM.

No way you are connecting to the MS3 and it be reporting MS1. If you were using an MS1 tune to open the MS3 tune you would be getting all sorts of errors and likely none of the information would make any sense.

Update Tunerstudio to the latest 3.0.22 version. Make a new project for your car. Load a base tune from Brain if you have to. Try to communicate with the MS3 in project properties or in the communications tab. Once it properly connects accept the settings in the controller, and not the settings in Tunerstudio. It may have to download the correct .ini file so make sure you have internet connection.

Once you know you are connectd to the MS3 then go and start checking settings and outputs. Obviously your outputs have to be set in software where the jumper is sending a signal to.

Then possibly update to the new firmware although I still hear some complaints about the 1.5 firmware so maybe only go to 1.4.1

I will look Hector, just got a few more hours at work then I'm free. Just to be clear the screen shot was not connected to the car but just to open TS to see settings. And verify no alternator was showing. The car was last loaded with a msq from 18psi and slowly tuned over 2 weeks to the current spot. He used ms3 so I'm assuming it's ms3 but can't say 100% cause I didn't pay attention to the header each time. I will be on later.

Think I messed up this morning, searched my laptop and no files found for ms, ms3, msm, mycar, etc. I have several runs from and to work and different dates and now its all gone. I checking 1 other place now to see if I made a copy of the last good run on a CD or SD card. I did the update today while at work could I of erased all my stuff with the update?

Ok looks like I lost everything from 2 weeks ago to now, but found what 18psi sent me and what the car had in 2014 before going into storage, not sure if any that will help. I noticed no one is on so I will do some reading on ~how to post a msq and datalog here, ~how to read whats in the MS3X currently, ~how to get MS off the header and get MS3 so I can work on the alternator settings.

That seems like an excellent plan!
Or just play around with it- there is at least some self-explaining going on- on hte forum as well as in Tunerstudio!

Tried reading up on turbokitty.com and all I get is url not found, this site dead?

trubokitty.com

1. Go Advanced -> scroll down -> manage attachments
2. Just plug the MS3x into your computer. If TunerStudio comes up with a difference report, it'll tell you what tune is on the ECU, and what tune is opened in TunerStudio
3. The header won't list the correct firmware unless you're connected to the ECU

Is there any reason to use 18psi's 2014 stuff? Why not just flash 1.4.1 firmware, use the 1.4.1 ini file in TunerStudio, and load up Braineack's basemap?

Aceduce there is a lot of stuff I don't know about Megasquirt, willing to learn it and how to use it. I read through some manuals on DIY back in 2014 then the car went into storage and was driven 1 or 2x a month to keep things going. Wasn't far, just mostly around the storage buildings. Other than the fans killing the car I just needed to get the tune done. 2 weeks ago I got rid of storage and trying to drive the car more since it now sits at home. I'm at work and left my laptop at home so all I have is my phone to look at till I'm off work. Ty for the instructions I will also look at 1.4.1 firmware.

Ok guys Since I realized when I updated to 1.4.1 I lost everything since I wasn't 100% sure what the other guy did I just started fresh, Got ms3 showing up and alternator settings are up now. I went through the ms3 manual and disconnected coils, got com4 on my lap top set up since that's the usb port not going to be pressed against my seat. Got my laptop talking to the ecu,, did the TPS one no problem, MAP/Baro sensor in the MS3X said 2.5 MPX4250, options said AP at the end not sure if that makes any difference. CLT I put the mazda one and to get the correct reading I had to change the OHM value to 75k from 50k to read right temp. AIT was changed to GM and ohms set to 15900 to get correct reading. AFR was pre set at LC-1 which I am using so left it alone. Calling it a night for the engine and sequential settings leave it for tomorrow. Saved to ECU and ms3 file on the Laptop.

So far so good?

Need a verification
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5a01d115c2.jpg
I.D. 1000cc injectors, 1839cc engine input these 2 and hit fuel required and says 3.1, dose that look right? Thought I should see between .8 and 1

Can anyone help with the above pic?
Not sure if I should start a new topic or just stick to this one.

3.1 sounds about right. My 640s have 5.1ms. Why would you think between 0.8 and 1.0?

Looking through the set up on diy ms3, 1.5, 2.13.4 says high impedance injectors are between .8 and 1.0ms

That's most likely dead time. Req_fuel is dependent on flow rate.

Ok thanks guys, I'll move onto the next step when I get back home.

Got a bit of time yesterday noted where all pins were on ms3x and what's used/not used on OEM harness. Also rewired the fans so the Ms3x can control them both seperately.

Cooling fan is on nitrous 1/pin 24 upper db37
​​​​​​A/C fan is on Inj.G/pin 1 upper db37
Alternator charge is on Spr4/pin 6 lower db37

But in I/O settings nitrous 1 is my alternator and I don't see a Spr4 in the options, where can I move this so I can get these to control it? And should I move the cooling fan off nitrous 1 pin and put it where?

Tested A/C fan and it works like it should.

~Moved my cooling fan to pin 34, Spark D.
~Removed vvt wire completely to avoid confusion.
~Moved 3m Alternator charge to pin 24, nitrous 1
~Waste gate solenoid was capped off, connected it to from 4D to pin 6, boost.
​~Jumpered grounds on ms3 pins 2,3,8,12,17 upper db37.
​​​​​~Jumpered grounds on ms3 pins 1&2 on lower db37.
​~Cap and stowe​​​​​d pin 15 Spark C, 28 Table switch, and IAC1A for later use.
​​​​​​~Need to double check Knock sensor 4M going to pin 3 on the lower db37. Just to make sure it goes there.

Then back to tesing I/O

I read on the alternator about adding a resistor like 470ohm, in line with the alternator. Anyone know if I still need to do that or dose the .14+ update eliminate it?

Alternator needs a pull up to 5V, not in-line. Read through the thread that's called like "Alternator control MS3 dead nailed". The information needed for wiring is on the last few pages.

Yup read that one 2days ago, I'll go back to it just to see again, just to be sure.

Just got the box apart and unplugged the small ribbon connector and folded the expansion card off to the side. Verifying the location for the 470ohm resistor to go in I noticed VCC H5 has nothing going to it. The pic Chiburbian posted in alternator dead nailed post 88 had solder on his board. Looks like H1 pk7, H5 vcc, H6 Gnd, and the red wire he put in H3 pk3 all have solder. Mine don't, other than pk3 should there be soldeded in stuff theres?

Wait a minute what's this? Says "Alternator Brain , 2012 Brainwerks"

Don't tell me it a alternator control.https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3de0dcd08b.jpg

Anyone know what this is and what it covers?

I did several searches and didn't really find any info on it.

Most likely alternator control. See post 7 with Braineacks diagram, https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...tal-inj-76359/

Ok thanks

Looked at it and I think I'll pm a few guys to see if anyone can say for sure this will work on a 05 msm.

It's my alternator controller. I must have built that one before the code was available. Only 18 of those units exist...


what are you actually trying to do?

Well that explains why I don't find much on this circuit board. Trying to convert this ms3x I got from 18psi to work in my 2005 msm. I know he had a 01 vvt and is different.

Last thing I had trouble with was alternator was not charging and I could not run 2 FM fans, so I unplugged 1 side and raised idle up to 1500. That's been working for few weeks now. Seen u used Spr3 and Spr4 to control the alternator but was told to move Spr4 and don't think anyone knew it was used for the alternator. I just found this over the weekend while getting ready to do the pull up resistor thing.

wanna just send it back to me and ill make it work?

Sure pm me some info

Going forward update

Finally got a weekend off and installed the MS3X back into the car. My laptop no longer worked without being plugged in so I dropped a few dollars on a new one. Everything got loaded last night and really looking forward to putting everything to use. Started the car and checked voltage so far its looking good, fans kicked on and did not kill the car. So happy that's behind me now. Thanks Braineack!!!!!

I did notice now my AFR's are reading odd. The AFR table floats between 14.7 and 15 but my wideband LC1 is steadily going higher. I seen over a 2min run time it climbed to 19 so I shut down the car. The table reads good but the gauge on the TS screen and my LC1 both read the increasing number so I'm going to read up a bit on that section before going any further. If you all know if I need to turn on/off or check something let me know please. I will read up a bit then jump back online.

ms3x
 

I spent the day reading but found nothing on why the AFR readings are showing in 2 places differently. Anyone see what I missed. I adjusted the Timing map and AFR map and now I get a jump in idle every 30 seconds that last about 10 seconds @ 2700 rpm then drops back to 1200 or so. Car starts in 2 or 3 revolutions so starting and stays running, no knock or pinging. CLT and MAT sensors are also not the same on a cold engine, one reads 41 and the other reads 54 degrees F.

ms3x
 

I attached 2 files but only 1 uploaded so here is the other one.

ok well it wont load....hmmm