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Old 08-18-2008, 10:32 AM   #81
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After doing some more research, that IC that Joe mentioned is the same as another made by Intersil HPIC9011 (same as TI TPIC8101). I can't find any other ASICs on the market other than these.

We can do windowed knock detection with this chip, but we need an external uProc to talk to it and to do knock window calculations. It wouldn't be that hard, but I am lazy. Some guy in Sweden basically did what we want to do with this chip for his masters.
http://db.s2.chalmers.se/download/ma...r_062_2004.pdf

I'm down with throwing something like this together, but I wish I could get a Masters for it. This hardly seems difficult enough to deserve a Masters.
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:09 PM   #82
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Knock Ion detection through the spark plugs would be MONEY!
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:30 PM   #83
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That would be intense, and would require tons more wicked complex electronics on the ignition system.
soooooo
NO
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:09 PM   #84
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Yay! Ion Detection for the Win. Except, of course, not really. :-) WAY too much work.

If you think you could copy his thing, what would be amazing. Also, if you get anywhere on it, let us know over at DIYEFI.org, as it's on our long list of things to do. :-)

I thought there were more chips, but I don't care, one that works is good enough. Knowing WHICH cyl knocked (as a step-up-from-MS ecu could do) would be awesome.

-Abe.
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:45 AM   #85
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Sorry to dig this up as my first post, but what ever happened to this??? I would be very interested in this board for 90 - 93.

Thanks
-Joey
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Old 05-03-2009, 12:31 PM   #86
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So I know its been a long time that I've been teasing you guys with this idea, but I'm finally serious now. I graduate from school in less than a month, and I don't have a job. My plan is to have the MS adapter board (90-93) done and in production by the end of June, so that I can eat and have a roof above my head after my summer job ends. At about the same time a standalone knock detector will be released and shortly thereafter subsequent model year adapter boards.

Now lets get on to some of the features. The MS adapter board will hence be referred to as "MIATASQUIRT" (ok I really like the name).

MiataSquirt will:
a)fit into the stock case with minimal modification (maybe a drill hole for the map line) (I also think this should help you guys out that race in NASA)
b)use the stock 48 pin connector (instead of the 64 that everyone on here uses)
c)be an easy/clean install that can be completely hidden (almost as plug and play as MSPNP)
d)have built in windowed knock detection, and when the engine knocks the check engine light will light for a brief period
e)have optional Bluetooth communication built in (for an additional fee, cost will depend on volume)
f)work with V3 and V3.57 boards
g)cost about $200 less than MSPNP (inlcudes cost of both MS and adapter board)

I like the whole open source movement, and as a result I'm developing this on linux in gEDA. I will likely make the schematics for the MiataSquirt and knock detector available as well as the source code for the knock detector (such that others can LEARN).

One last thing, I have a 1991 so I can easily make this thing for my car. I do not however have any other generations of Miata. Is the 94-95 ECU the same size as the 90-93? I know it uses the same 48 pin connector so I assume its pretty close. Does any one that has gone standalone on 94-95 or 96-97 have their old ECU laying around that they wouldn't mind giving to me to develop this thing. Also is anyone around the greater Indianapolis area that would want to be a guinea pig for some of the later models. I am specifically located in Terre Haute, Indiana. If any one wants to talk about this or see what I have so far, I will be at an AutoX in Terre Haute on May 17th.
Sorry for all you Houston guys, I grew up there in Friendswood, I wish I could be back there to develop this thing. There are so many more of us Miata guys down in Houston.
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Old 05-03-2009, 06:19 PM   #87
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Yes the 94 onwards ECU is exactly the same size with the same mounting points. I built my MS in a 1.6 case which is now fitted to my 1.8. If you want any info on the 1.8 or to guinea pig any ideas shoot me a PM, my car seems to spend more time off the road than on anyway! I know I'm not exactly local to the Indianapolis area but what ya gonna do
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:44 PM   #88
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Have you seen this?





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Old 05-06-2009, 03:33 PM   #89
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Actually I hadn't seen that. Got a link to the person selling it?

While its semi-sweet, it won't have [email protected] on my adapterboard. My knock detection will kick KnocksenseMS's *** in terms discrimination from engine noise.

For those of you more technically minded, knock can only occur for a few milliseconds after each plug fires. The knocksenseMS consists of (I think) a low pass filter (low frequencies pass through it), and an analog comparator. This is completely indiscriminate and could potentially have problems with temperature instability. My knock detector will do something called windowed knock detection. I will intercept the spark events from the processor, and only look for knock for a few milliseconds after each event. Basically it'll be super sweet and will be better than pretty much any of the other solutions out there.

Not to mention my board will have (optionally for a fee) bluetooth built in!
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:16 AM   #90
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Don't tease any longer - go for it.
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:47 PM   #91
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You're not worried about pre-ignition at all? That's one thing that worries me on windowed system - it seems like you'd almost want a circular buffer, which only notices but doesn't report events outside of a window of 1/30 rotation about ignition. Something like that.

You're going to do it with a microcontorller, or do you have some clever all analog scheme? For that matter, are you going to use a knock chip, or discretes?
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:01 PM   #92
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I hadn't really thought about pre-ignition. I've only been doing this "car" thing for about 2 years now, so while I am pretty knowledgeable, I'm still somewhat of a .

I am doing this with a micro and that knock chip (TI: TPIC8101 Intersil: HIP9011). The chip will integrate the knock signal during the window event, and compare this to a calibrated value in the uProc EEPROM. It shouldn't be hard at all to add a second lookup table and capture data for pre-ignition as well. Plus I'm sure I could find another unused dash light that I have access to to display that information.

Good idea Abe, thanks for the advice. If anyone else has any ideas or suggestions, I would love to hear them. I'm making this thing largely for you guys, but also the losers on m.net. I want this thing to be THE megasquirt solution for miatas.

As far as progress goes: I have the schematic largely finalized. Right now I'm working on creating footprints for the components, and to an extent I'm still figuring out gEDA. I'm scheduled to have the board out for fabrication by the end of the month, and then depending on cash flow into production by the end of June.

Also I noticed with that other adapter that was posted, that there still had to be a significant amount of wiring and brackets made. That sucks. They had the right idea with that, but executed it poorly. The board will be the exact same size and shape as the stock one and will use the stock machine screws and mounting holes.
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Old 05-10-2009, 05:56 PM   #93
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Here a quick update for those of you following this. The schematic is done, and all the footprints are created and associated with parts. I'm very close to starting layout (ahead of my schedule). Heres a few screen shots of the schematics for the cool stuff (knock detection and bluetooth).

Knock Chip (TPIC8101)


Knock Processor (PIC16F882)


Bluetooth Circuitry (EB101 from a7 Engineering and support circuits)
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:16 PM   #94
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So some of you may have thought that I'm just full of hot air, but that simply isn't the case. Behold my plug and play MegaSquirt solution for Miata's:



This is a photo of my first prototype board. Features include, but are not limited to:
Bluetooth and USB connectivity
Windowed Knock detection with Check engine light indicator
Joe's ignition pop fix
A/C fix
Clutch switch pre-wired for launch control
COP tach fix
Boost control
Oh and it fits in the stock case!-good for certain racing classes/organizations
etc.

The board is currently setup for MS-I although an MS-II version is in the works. While the board is currently untested, I'm building a programmer for the processor and should have my car up and running on it this week. I cannot currently sell these due to licensing issues with MegaSquirt. I am in contact with B&G and we are working on coming to an agreement. B&G tries to minimize competition within the Megasquirt community and as I'm sure you are all well aware I would compete directly with MSPNP. I would like to sell these with all the features included for $500-600, but I fear in order to get the liscense B&G as well as DIY will have a say in what I sell them for.

I also have a team of engineers working on boards for later model years as well as other makes and models. Let me know your thoughts on this board so far, and if you guys have any other cars you think something like this would be good for let me know.

Hey DIY, if I've scared you a little bit...good! That being said, I think we could work together to come to a solution that is beneficial for the both of us.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:35 PM   #95
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Hot DAMN.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:41 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yertnamreg1218 View Post
So some of you may have thought that I'm just full of hot air, but that simply isn't the case.
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:31 AM   #97
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Do you actually have the knock sensor working, or did you just put a footprint down on the PCB?
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:09 AM   #98
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That looks kickass, massive props for the custom work

have you tested the knock stuff? And how do you set it all up? MS just pulls timing on a pin being pulled high/low, its not actually a dedicated knock pin, there's nowt in the software for fancy knock stuff either :(
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:47 AM   #99
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Good eye guys. The processor for the knock sensor isn't placed on the board. Turns out I ordered the DIP version accidentally instead of the SSOP. I have one on order and should have that together soon.

The hardware design for the knock sensor is done, but the software still needs some work. The knock sensor is currently setup to (optionally via jumper) use two of the wires in the AFM harness for the knock sensor (Less wires through the fire wall = more PNP). The processor will look at the spark outputs and based on them and the RPM it will have a lookup table to determine a threshold noise level (which will be calibrated by the user). During the knock event window the device will integrate the knock signal, and if it is greater than the noise threshold for that given RPM it will alert the user.

I looked into knock ion sensing. Its pretty cool and not that hard. The issue is the need for custom ignition coils. Delphi makes them and I could definitely rig something up to do this, but it might be cost prohibitive for all but a select few users. I'm definitely down for doing it, but that would be something down the road for my company once we get established with these Megasquirt products.

One last thing before I head off to work, the final boards will have a better proto area. This board is certainly organized, but layout could be better. Final boards will have one large proto area with fanout's for DIPs. This should make prototyping additions very easy.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:12 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
The Extra code is open-source,
The source code is indeed open, but it remains under copyright.

The main copyright holders on the MS1/Extra code are:
Bruce Bowling, Philip Ringwood, James Murray

and for reference, the copyright holders on the MS2/Extra code are:
Al Grippo, Kenneth Culver, James Murray

The source code being available does NOT mean it is free to steal and use on non-approved products. I have been in discussion with solicitors recently about taking legal action to uphold my copyright on these codes.

regards

James Murray
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