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Old 05-07-2008, 10:33 AM   #1
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Default MS add-on options

Chad will be building me a MS shortly. He listed a couple items as optional and I wanted to get some feedback on them.

1) EBC includes GM boost solenoid

2) 4-bar Map sensor w/realtime barometric correction

The EBC and GM boost solenoid will work with my internal WG T25? Does it simply replace the vacuum actuator? Not real smart on this part. Basically, as I understand it, it will improve spool because the gate is pinned shut until the target pressure is hit instead of creeping open while building boost? Is that the main advantage? Also, if I am targeting 6 psi for now, I can set it at that and later change to 8, 10, 12 or whatever desired after I add the FMIC, injectors, exhaust, clutch? I understand I will have to update tables, etc.

What about the 4-bar MAP sensor?

What advantages does it offer over not using it? Need it or pass?
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:43 AM   #2
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Planning on running over 21psi and up down giant mountains? If no... you don't need the 4bar mapdaddy option.

Do the ebc, it'll make for nice easy to change boost later on.
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:06 AM   #3
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The only reason to go with the 4bar map sensor it the built in baro correction. If you plan on doing mountain runs with alot of elevation changes it will make real time adjustments based on pressure changes. It's not necessary, just a nice feature.

You want EBC, pretty much no reason not to get it unless you already have an MBC and are happy with it.
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
What about the 4-bar MAP sensor?

What advantages does it offer over not using it? Need it or pass?
The fact that you won't need it unless you plan to run >21 PSI of boost has been noted. As to constant barometric correction, I feel this is worthwhile. Even if you don't scale a lot of mountains, it will prevent you from getting stuck with false baro readings in the event of a processor reset while driving.

In the "normal" configuration, MS samples the primary MAP sensor at startup (before you've begun cranking) and uses this as the baro reading. Problem is, if you ever encounter a processor reset while driving, MS will re-sample, only this time it'll be under vaccum. There are some limits you can place in the software to prevent it from being too wrong, but it'll still be wrong.

You can get constant baro correction without having to pay for the $65 MapDaddy. Simply purchase a second 250kPa sensor ($28) and install it inside the case, upside-down and backwards across the pins of the first MAP sensor, with the signal pin bent up and wired to JS5.
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
The EBC and GM boost solenoid will work with my internal WG T25? Does it simply replace the vacuum actuator? Not real smart on this part. Basically, as I understand it, it will improve spool because the gate is pinned shut until the target pressure is hit instead of creeping open while building boost? Is that the main advantage? Also, if I am targeting 6 psi for now, I can set it at that and later change to 8, 10, 12 or whatever desired
You retain your stock wastegate actuator. The EBC solenoid is spliced into the boost line from your compressor housing to the actuator. I would absolutely build the MS for it and get the solenoid... but to use EBC just to improve spool-time of the stock boost level is more pain in tuning than it's worth. Get yourself a cheap $15 manual boost controller... it'll provide the same improved spool time and require virtually no tuning. Trust me, trying to tune an EBC map to give you 6psi on a 6psi wastegate actuator is WAY more pain than it's worth.
An MBC is a handy troubleshooting tool to have anyways. I haven't used mine in months, but it's still there under the hood, mounted on the fender just in case I need a solid 14psi if my EBC craps out.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
You can get constant baro correction without having to pay for the $65 MapDaddy. Simply purchase a second 250kPa sensor ($28) and install it inside the case, upside-down and backwards across the pins of the first MAP sensor, with the signal pin bent up and wired to JS5.
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I was wondering if I could get some clarification: Can the signal pin be jumpered directly to JS5 or does it require the 1K resistor and the various capacitors as well? I'm under the impression that by tapping into the same pins on the original sensor, you bypass the need for the resistors and capacitors that you would normally build on the proto area, right?

Just wanted to ask/clarify before I accidentally do anything stupid.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:59 AM   #7
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don't bother installing a 2nd map sensor. Baro correction doesn't work properly.
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Old 09-09-2011, 11:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnshk View Post
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I was wondering if I could get some clarification: Can the signal pin be jumpered directly to JS5 or does it require the 1K resistor and the various capacitors as well? I'm under the impression that by tapping into the same pins on the original sensor, you bypass the need for the resistors and capacitors that you would normally build on the proto area, right?

Just wanted to ask/clarify before I accidentally do anything stupid.
Are you using the map daddy? if so then go directly to JS5. Otherwise you'll need two caps and a 1K...build it directly onto the sensor, no need to mess up the proto area.



Quote:
Originally Posted by f_devocht View Post
don't bother installing a 2nd map sensor. Baro correction doesn't work properly.
I thought this wasnt the case for MS2 where you can tune your own barometric corrections table.
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f_devocht View Post
don't bother installing a 2nd map sensor. Baro correction doesn't work properly.
Can you give a little more context to this? On MS3 too? What firmware? If it's broken, why not have the developers fix it?
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:10 PM   #10
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Like I said, I'm pretty sure there's a barometric corrections table now...so you can tune the corrections as needed. Where before it was hardcoded into the MS1 code and didn't perform properly.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:40 PM   #11
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Extended > barometric correction

More than likely you will have to tune it.
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Old 09-09-2011, 08:25 PM   #12
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Yup, my bad. Never noticed the able is there now. Been so long that I never actually bothered to take another look at it.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:31 PM   #13
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Brain, thanks for the clarification!

Am I to understand that the baro correction will not function properly on an MS1 at all, or does it just need to be configured/tweaked adequately? It appears to be an option that can be enabled in the MS-Extra code?
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