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Old 05-07-2013, 10:00 PM   #1
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Default MS install before turbo?

Hey all,

I am almost ready to start building- had a couple of other projects come up that have slowed me down.

I had been planning to pre-install the MS that Dimitris built for me, but I was thinking... (scary)

If I install the MS, I would also need to get rid of the stock AFM and install the GM sensor in order to be up and running, correct? Also, the WB02 would need to be installed.

The MS2E will also be looking for boost as it is configured from Dimitris, so the more I think about it, the more it seems I should just do the injectors and MS while I am working on the turbo install. I do understand that the more things I change, the harder troubleshooting can be, but it does not seem like it would make sense to change a bunch of stuff to run NA for a week or two and then install the turbo.

Am I missing something (besides an adult brain?)
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:59 PM   #2
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i was gonna do the same **** but sold the ms and my wideband.
install ms first and learn it, then boost. though, i think the general consensus would be to do it all at the same time, so idk

yes, wideband at the same time.
yes, iat at the same time.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:50 PM   #3
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I bought a DIYPNP and an MTX-L at the same time, and learned the basics of tuning. Once I was comfortable, I added the GM IAT. Then I added the Variable TPS. All in steps, to see how the reacted to eachother. Only now am I adding the turbo parts. Boosting before you know how to manage it is just asking for trouble. There are countless threads from those who have blown up their engines because they decided to do it all at once, before really understanding what was happening to the engine.

Bottom line, learn to tune before you add boost. I'ts damn near impossible to mess up an N/A engine bad enough to need a rebuild, but a boosted motor can be turned into a paperweight in a matter of seconds.

Edit: All the mods you mention are used in a F/I application as well as F/I. You don't need to do much else besides change your tune to go from N/A to F/I if you have them all installed.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:03 AM   #4
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Thanks for the help, I did some more searching and am a little more dangerous now.

I am not a total newb to tuning, my last miata was running a link on a 1.6, so I understand the concepts, but not tuner studio. So, if I were to do the following---

Install Innovate WB02
Install IAT into stock airbox
Either remove AFM or just unplug it
Install MS2E
Beg Reverant to send me a non-fi tune to get running

I should be ok to get up and going, and gather the basics of running tuner studio, then tear down and start building turbo?

If I were unfortunate enough to blow the engine, I would then be "forced" to drive to trackspeed and pick up a build motor- not the worst thing! Unless I have not got the tune straight.....
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:06 AM   #5
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also, don't listen to me. i have no idea what i'm talking about
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:57 AM   #6
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It doesn't matter. Boosted or not it doesn't change anything.
But it is fun to mess with.

If you're lazy or busy, wait until the turbo stuff goes on.
If you're bored and want to mess with it, hook it up.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwink View Post
Install Innovate WB02
Install IAT into stock airbox
Either remove AFM or just unplug it
Install MS2E
Beg Reverant to send me a non-fi tune to get running
Your order is wrong. Install MS2E needs to be first. Without the MS, the stock ECU will freak the **** out if you try to remove the AFM. And it has no way of knowing what the calibration values for the IAT are supposed to be. The MS needs to be installed before any of the above mentioned mods.

Also, if you're going to remove the AFM, just cobble together a charge pipe to cone filter and delete the entire factory air system. The MS compensates for this.

1. Install MS. and WB02 at the same time.
2. Remove AFM and piping, install IAT into said piping.
3. Learn to create maps based on the millions found on this site.
4.????
5. Profit!

Edit: You'd have to **** up in biblical proportions to blow an N/A motor with a MS. That's why it's better to learn how the system works before you can actually cause damage.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselmiata View Post
Your order is wrong. Install MS2E needs to be first. Without the MS, the stock ECU will freak the **** out if you try to remove the AFM. And it has no way of knowing what the calibration values for the IAT are supposed to be. The MS needs to be installed before any of the above mentioned mods.

Also, if you're going to remove the AFM, just cobble together a charge pipe to cone filter and delete the entire factory air system. The MS compensates for this.

1. Install MS. and WB02 at the same time.
2. Remove AFM and piping, install IAT into said piping.
3. Learn to create maps based on the millions found on this site.
4.????
5. Profit!

Edit: You'd have to **** up in biblical proportions to blow an N/A motor with a MS. That's why it's better to learn how the system works before you can actually cause damage.

Thanks for the help! I wasn't clear above- I meant that I would do all my steps at once- not one at a time.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:03 PM   #9
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Install the MS and practice tuning first while it's still n/a.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:18 AM   #10
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Installing the MS, the injectors, and the wideband first and then the turbo would be best but odds are you're not going to get another bung welded for the GM temp sensor on the intake and a bung for the wideband on the stock exhaust just so you can take it all off a month later.

The way i did it and would highly recommend my way would be to install the turbo, boost gauge, and wideband. OPEN THE WASTEGATE so you're not spooling. Dont worry about the injectors yet.
Drive it like that on stock ecu for 2-3 days to ensure you're not leaking oil, coolant, and other ****. AGAIN DRIVE IT NICELY.. <80kpa, never wot, under 4k rpm. If you wot it the turbo will spool some and you don't want that.

Then install the MS and tune with the wastegate open up to about 100kpa. Then do the injectors and ensure the tune remains correct, then close the wastegate and start tunning boost.

The GM sensor... If you didnt get a plug with your sensor you can have the sensor in the pipe to prevent unmetered air from entering the engine however you can connect the wiring when you pull the maf and install the ms. Also install the bov when u install the ms.

Heres mine with the turbo installed but the wastegate still open. Note the wastegate and the maf.


Attached Thumbnails
MS install before turbo?-image015.jpg  

Last edited by triple88a; 05-09-2013 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:35 AM   #11
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Thank you for that info! I was under the impression that the gm IAT would fit in the stock airbox location? No?
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:38 AM   #12
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The gm iat has threads so it wont fit in the hole unless you rethread it and glue it or something. It doesnt really matter to be honest. The resistance and the wiring of the stock sensor is the same as the gm iat sensor so you can tune on the stock air temp sensor. The problem is the location. Once you hook up that turbo and you reroute the intake through the turbo you will need to put the sensor between the IC and the throttle body otherwise you'll be reading ambient air which will get heated up a lot by the turbo which then will make ur car run like **** because its not giving the proper fuel for the temp of air going in the engine.. Trust me traffic jams are a disaster when ur car wont idle for ****.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwink View Post
Thank you for that info! I was under the impression that the gm IAT would fit in the stock airbox location? No?
If you want you can install the GM sensor in your airbox in addition to the stock sensor. I did this just to get pulling the wires out of the way.

I used a step drill bit and knocked out a hole. 7/8" if I recall. From there I took a piece of PVC that I bought at home depot that the GM sensor ALMOST fit into and threaded it. From there I JB weld'ed the PVC into the airbox. It isn't perfect, but it turned out pretty ok.

Lookee here: https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...3/#post1008437
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
The gm iat has threads so it wont fit in the hole unless you rethread it and glue it or something. It doesnt really matter to be honest. The resistance and the wiring of the stock sensor is the same as the gm iat sensor so you can tune on the stock air temp sensor. The problem is the location. Once you hook up that turbo and you reroute the intake through the turbo you will need to put the sensor between the IC and the throttle body otherwise you'll be reading ambient air which will get heated up a lot by the turbo which then will make ur car run like **** because its not giving the proper fuel for the temp of air going in the engine.. Trust me traffic jams are a disaster when ur car wont idle for ****.
Cool- thanks for the help. My IC piping is already plumbed for the IAT, so once I get the turbo bits in, that should be good. It looks like I can make do with the stock sensor in the meantime for some NA tuning.
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