Easy for you Abe. I've never even seen a jimstim! Only heard others speak about them. BTW, I haven't forgotten about my Knocksense led and taking the pic. I really think that came out good. I'll take some tomorrow morning. I just saw it's not actually in the pod but in the Begi Boost gauge.

About the coolant mod is not so much being afraid to solder. The friend who helped me with the coil on plugs is really good at it; it's more with the fact that I don't really understand the instructions :o

I'd rather wait a few days. I'm going to have another EMS that I don't plan to use but then, if I mess up I won't be stranded without my car for 3 weeks like now:gay:

This turbo thing is really fun. I just surprised my first 355 tonight. haha.

Rafa

Oh, yeah, it's a weird feeling that....

Before my turbo, I had an expression, getting v-8'ed. On the way home from work, there's two long, high speed turns followed by a big hill. I could take just about any non-exotic through the turns, but then up the hill every plane-jane mustang would leave me in the dust. I got "v-8'ed".

Now* a mustang really has to be something special, they are much more rare than a quick evo oh something, but generally it's only Z06's that I worry about, and even then it comes down to who's driving.


*Stictly speaking, now I'm quite slow. NA power, below 1/4 throttle and 2/3 revs. ha.

When you get the ECU, speak up, I'm sure you'll get solid directions for this mod.

This raises a good point which I'd never really considered before. There are a couple of very basic "how to solder" tutorials that teach you about tip prep, what a good joint looks like, etc. But I don't think I've ever seen a basic "how to read schematics" tutorial. Just the basics like how to read netnames, how to understand current flow, how BJTs, FETs, diodes, etc work, that sort of thing.

Not sure if it'd be helpful to the total novice or not...

That is a good point. That's why those links i posted are so great. One has schematics, another has a parts lists, both have pictures of the actual mod top and bottom. It's so well written out that I would hate for him to do it himself when I could just fly down to the DR and suffer through spring break is the tropics while i take 8 minutes to complete the fan mod :)

:cjerk: Why is this smilie like my user name cjerk= very close to cjernigan

True- that's good documentation.

The ones that bother me are, for instance, the ignition output mod. There are good written directions that say "attach a wire to the top of Rxx" and pictures that go along, but there's no damn schematic! So if I want to understand how the circuit works, I've gotta reverse-engineer it by eyeballing the PCB to see where the "top" of Rxx goes to, correlate that to the schematic, etc. So I've been working with an 11x17 printed copy of the schematic upon which I've done a lot of penciling.

FWIW, you've already received that invitation in private. I'll make it here in the Forum so everyone who knows you can make fun of you: Both you and your companion are always welcome at my home. You'll have the use of a turboed Miata while here;). I'm too old for you to be hanging around with but you can count on Manny (and even with Rafa jr and Charlie) to show you around. Shit, I'll even get you the best rate possible at the best local beach hotels.

I'll make this info which I hadn't provided to you yet, public; check the net and look for "Punta Cana International Airport"; that one is one of the few "private" international airports in the world. If you decide to visit using that one I'll even give you VIP treatment and pick you and your companion at the plane's stairs. The owner of that particular airport just happens to be one of my closest friends. He's my oldest son's godfather. He just became filthy rich with time. We're still friends. Don't get the wrong idea, he is the one who's filthy rich, I'm just his friend.:gay:

I don't think I can offer you anything more. I got no clue on anything mechanical:mad:

Rafa

Abe, I agree 100% with you. That's the reason I turboed my car.

about getting directions; I'll open the MS at that time and ask with pics.

Thanks for everything,

Rafa

A very good idea - though I think something going into that much depth might even be a bit intimidating unless you broke it up into sections.

Certainly, day one:
Ground/Vcc, etc
Wires
Resistors
Diodes
Capacitors
Inductors

The last two are a little conceptually difficult, and you hard see enough of the latter to make it worth studying (we're not all RF folks, you know). But you could make one cheat sheet for those.

Then a second one that's entirely transistors. Explain ONE in detail (this opens the gate/turns the valve/etc), and then show different kinds and how they are all basically the same.

Lastly, special topics, like limiting current through a LED, what Zener Diodes do, what a relay does, etc. You could also litter it with things like fuses, lamps, etc.

But I'd want to see each mentioned part with a picture (sketch/photo), pins clearly labled with unambiguous understanding of "top" and "front", etc. Each section would need that. Maybe add pages for very simple circuits, Vcc-switch-light-ground. A voltage divider. On the second page, maybe the current limiter from the MS, that's a nice circuit, complex but simple.

When you getting back in town??

Back in the day (ha!) I got my introduction to electronic components by studying for an Amateur Radio license (aka a Ham radio license). I don't know how popular amateur radio is for our friend from the DR, but here the American Radio Relay League (ARRL) publishes a great handbook that will simply inundate you with electronics info. Granted a whole heck of a lot of it has to do with RF stuff you'll rarely need in an automotive setting, but it's all there.

There are all sorts of learning tutorials designed to explain the basic concepts to you, then train you on the practice questions you'll need to know to do the license test. Those might actually be a bit of a more gentle approach than the ARRL handbook. On the other hand, there are so many generations of the ARRL handbook that they're easily found dirt cheap or free, and age doesn't matter (within reason - you want less focus on vacuum tubes :) ), because the fundamentals are the same.

There are probably good Ham sites on the web that will teach you the basics, you might google amateur radio license tests or study material or something.

Anywho, sorry for the longish and slightly-off-topic post, hope it helps someone...

beerbaron, great info there. FWIW, also back in the day (hahaha) I used to have a 2 meter radio in my car but the one I bought I never even thought about opening it up!

I really like your idea to google amateur radio license. I'll pursue that option and keep on asking dumb questions:gay:

BTW, based on your sig I would say you know your beers. If so, I suggest you ask for a "Presidente" one day. That one is made locally and controls more than 90% of this market. If you find it and try it let me know.

Thanks to you and to Abe. I'll follow up on this electronic thing.

Rafa

Here you go Abe, a pic of the knocksense led installed in the Begi boost gauge at the pod.

Regards,

Rafa

here's where i had put mine:

http://boostedmiata.com/MS/LED.jpg

Scott, you don't have a pod installed? I've got a momo steering wheel in the car and even though I like how it looks it interferes with my sight to some of my gauges. Anyways, in my particular case it's just sitting there looking pretty. It lights up but it doesn't mean anything. (It's sensor is connected to the CAS!). I guess I'll have to change the knocksense sensor to the right location myself, but that will have to wait until at least Wednesday.

Btw, would you mind if I pmed you my latest datalog? I'm having some significant issues with my LC1 and I'm afraid to run Ben's wrath if I start another LC1 bitching thread.:gay:

In short, when I powered up my car with the LC1 connected to the lambda cable I was not seeing any AFR readings on the MS; so, being as I am a complete Miata "expert" (hahaha), I changed that connection to the wire marked as "O2 sensor". I sent Chad my datalogs of last night and he, of course went ballistic. BTW, I still haven't told him that little bit of info about switching connections:gay:

Sorry,

Rafa

where was it installed before? i dont see how you guys are having all this trouble. where was the output connected in the first place? It's on the pink wire now?

Let me try to make a long story short. About 6 months ago my O2 sensor got fried and I got an engine check light. Since, as you know, we don't have any local emissions laws I found a used LC1 on the mnet classified section and bought it. I then took it to the shop where they installed it. At that time I clearly knew much less than I do now so when they told me it did not work I just forgot about it. I was running around with an installed pod with 2 gauges, 1 for boost and another for A/F and neither worked! :o

So I get all my turbo parts and contact WOT who btw, was kind enough to ship me a new one even though he had nothing to do with the one I had previously bought. We get to the part when they have to check whether the LC1 installed works or not and they tell me that it indeed is working. I tow my car home and work on the cops. When I'm through installing them and fire up the car I check the LC1 and it jumps from the rich limit to the lean one, except when the car's idling which shows a perfect 14.7. In the meantime, I connect the MS and find that it's not reading AFRs.

I just went down to my car and took some pics. It's getting late and I don't know how they'll come up. We'll see; give me a few minutes.

Rafa

Scott, pics attached. In the MS wires you can see we connected the one for the O2 sensor to the MS in the location where the Lambda one was connected. When the other one was connected the MS would not read any AFR. At least it's reading it now. Granted not the right readings.

what readings does it give you? is your configurator and MSQ setup for LC1? I looks like you put it on the pink wire, which is correct. where was it before?


I'm confused to why the blue/wht wire is labeled fuel pump and the purple labeled EBC....did Chad make those labels?

I'll see about the configurator and MSQ setup. I would guess yes. What I did was disconnect the wire that Chad had labeled as lambda (which I knew was the right one for a wideband but was not getting an AFR reading in the MS) and connected the wire for the O2 sensor to that same location. From that moment on the MS would recognize AFR but only like it was a narrowband sensor.

I'm going to have to wait for Chad to read these posts to give me some input about how to make the MS read my AFR.

I have the case of the new LC1 right in front of me and I already checked a link posted in Sam's thread with a general explanation. I'll follow those instructions. I still think that the LC1 sensor bung I have on right now is too close to the turbo (less than 2 feet away).

open configurator. car1 settings settings lamda sensor, change to lc1 0-5v. (or default if you never changed the output).

go save open megatune.

go the basic settings.

exhaust gas settings

change narrowband to WB.

change the number below it to 2.5

burn.

AFR should read correctly.

Got the message. Just so you don't get pissed; even I realize I'm beyond help right now. The first thing I have to do is to disconnect the MS wire from the one labeled O2 sensor and connect to the one labeled lambda as per Chad's original suggestion. Once I do that, I'll follow your suggestions.

I'm reading the Innovate manual right now at their website. The more I read the less I like what I've been told they did at the shop. Small sample: "When installed in the exhaust, the oxigen sensor must be connected and operating with the LC-1 whenever the car is running. An un-powered oxigen sensor will be quickly damaged when exposed to hot exhaust gases". I repeatedly asked the shop to disconnect it the first time when I saw it wasn't working. Calibration of the sensor? what calibration! they never did such a thing. I also asked where it was grounded; never got an answer. I'll have to find out by myself tomorrow morning.

Scott, really thanks for the help but right now I need to get informed before asking any more questions. I have to find out where the sensor is grounded. Shit, I have to change the Knocksense sensor location too. I specifically requested that they follow my instructions and even while I was present I couldn't get them to listen to me. :mad:

I have to take care of all this before asking any more stupid questions. At least I'm certain that I have no AFR problems and the engine is not in danger right now. We went out in my car with a sniffing wideband (the one you connect to the tailpipe and to the car's lighter) and the readings were all good, both in vacuum and in boost. It seems a lot of Cristian's customers just do not keep an account of what their cars' AFR are doing. I guess they feel that's too much of a hassle and why bother? since that is not my case I'll keep on getting informed.

I've got 2 short term priorities:
1.- change the location of the knocksense sensor in my engine and
2.- find out where my LC-1 is hooked up right now and then proceed with correcting any issues.

Once I do that I'll be back to make dumb questions. Don't doubt that for a second:gay:

Many thanks :bowdown:

Rafa

The LC-1 does have two outputs, defaults is that one of them is a narrowband emulator.

I'd guess that what you're seeing is that? I'm not on top of the wire colors.

Oh, in fact, since you got it used, it could very well have been programed for that - to output only narrowband signals.

Easy to tell, wait for it to warm up, and measure the voltages coming out of it with a voltmeter - if they never get over 2V, it's NB emulation. If it hovers around 2.5 it's 5V linear, and if it's 5V non-linear... I dunno. :-)

I flagged the wires with tape if they were hanging loose. I either flagged them with the appropriate label for what they were supposed to be connected to or I flagged them to make the label easier to read. The Pink wire is for your O2 sensor. Connecting that to your stock O2 sensor will not give you good readings unless you change things in configurator.

When i put together that foolproof folder for you I setup Configurator for both firmware options for LC1 linear. I assumed Christian knew what he was doing and had reformatted your LC1 for 0-5v and 10-20:1 AFR. Easy change on your end though.
I also setup Exhaust Gas Settings for your LC1 wideband. So no need to change that around until you want to use autotune. Then just change the step size from 0 to 1.

I like the Knocksense LED position. I have mine same place as scott's.

Sorry for my lacking input today guys. Hard to find time between the beaches and family.
(looking through the rest of thread to find questions that might be unanswered)

Abe, you know what?; I think you may be up to something there!

It indeed was a used one and I never asked the guy that sold it to me whether he was using it as a narrowband.

I have a voltimeter so, how would I go about using it? (sorry). By 2V, which of the wires should read that?

No matter what, I still think that my best solution down the road is to disconnect this one and do it right with the next one but for now your solution would give me some peace of mind.

Thanks,

Rafa

Turn your voltmeter to the setting closest to 5v, could be 5v, 10v, or 20v depending on how your meter is setup.
With the car running ground your voltmeter anywhere that can be used as a solid ground, chassis, motor w/e you have available. Then use the positive probe to check the voltage on the analog output you have available. Like abe said, if it never goes over 2v then it is setup wrong in the LC1 controller. If it reaches 2.5 v then you know it is setup for WG output. You need to find out if it is setup for default or linear though to get an accurate reading.

Got it. I'll follow these instructions. I still think it would be a miracle of the LC1 currently installed turned out to end up working fine. That thing has been installed in my car for about 2 months without getting any sort of reading from the gauge. I have to take it to a muffler place to have them relocate the bung anyways.

I have to read a lot more before making any sort of informed questions. In the meantime I've been reading about the fan control mod. Maybe I'll surprise you.

Thanks again and enjoy your holidays. If you keep on messing with my issues you're going to end up coming alone to visit and then we'll be forced to get you the Miata to use but a new companion. NOT GOOD. BTW, if your gf reads this post, it's all in good fun! :gay: I presume I'm already not too simpatico to her!

My apologies,

Rafa

Yes, like he's saying - there's two probes on the voltmeter (black into "COM" and red into "+V"), select a range as he says, you'll want "DCV" setting to measure voltage, DC.

Then measure from (red lead on voltmeter) the output wire on the LC-1, the one you are planning running to the pink wire on the harness, and check from there to the LC-1's signal ground (black lead goes here) though any bit of clean metal in the can should likely work).

Ok, so we started checking with the voltimeter. Following your and Chad's directions we got a reading of 2.5 volts so I figure the LC1 is connected as a WB. One little detail; when we put the black probe anywhere in a metal part of the chassis but the ground wire we get 0.00 reading. If we put it on the engine (we placed it on the headvalve cover) or directly to the chassis ground nut then we get a 2.52 volts reading.

Does this make any sense?

Thanks

Rafa

Ok Scott, now I can come back and ask some "dumb" but informed questions:

I'm attaching a pic of the EGO controls page with the settings. The only thing that could be considered wrong was that the second column read 2.35 and not 2.5. FWIW, I don't have a config file or an msq one because Chad sent me a file already configured to my specific car the second time around.

I'm also attaching another pic of 2 wires. The pink one which is the one currently installed in my car reads 02 and the blue one, which was the one we had originally connected reads "lambda" but when the MS was connected to that one it wouldn't show any AFR readings.

Thanks

Rafa

One other thing Scott; I got in touch with the local friend who did my wire harness for the cops (BTW his name is Leonardo and I wanted to let him know how much I appreciate his input :bowdown:) and he told me that according to the instructions Chad linked me that resistor is easily found here and that he thinks the job of wiring the fan control mod is a piece of cake so I wanted to ask a few questions about that before doing it tomorrow. I don't want to have to face any issues afterwards.

Here are the questions:

1.- First step would be to disconnect the cops!
2.- Should I open my MS and take a pic so I can get precise instructions about the job?
3.- If you posted one of the MS you've built, could I assume (yeah, I know what happens to those who assume!) that the soldering would be to the same locations?
4.- Any particular instructions for connecting the MS back to the car after that job is done?

Thanks

Rafa

I'm not sure why Chad labeled the one lamda...it looks like an output wire. wire your LC-1 output to the pink wire. I believe Chad confirmed this above as well.

However, you gotta go by his labels, because he could have built his harness differently than what I've published as the way I build mine. Easy thing to do would be probe with a multimeter exactly where each pin goes...once you know where it goes on the harness (say pin 27 or something) I can tell you what it's for. I build all my harnesses exactly the same so I can go by colors :)

for example, looking as your previous picture you have fuel pump labeled on a blue/wht wire and ebc labeled on the purple wire, however, if you look at the wire itself it say fuel pump.

I do know, that if you have ebc and knock and want fans you'll have to add another wire into your db37 harness. I have a very simple writeup on the fan mod in my "how to." The only thing you need to do differently is attach the output wire to a SP1 SP2 SP3 or SP4, instead of IAC2A, as that will already be occupied by the ebc or knock. You then have to open your db37 connector and solder a new output wire for the fan mod, then attach to you boomslang in the right spot. It's easy and this makes it sound more complicated than it is.

Still, your configurator must be set to LC1 default or your wbo2 will never look correct in MT.

I've never labeled a wire lambda. I might have labeled a wire launch though.
You have a pink O2 wire, labeled O2 on both the wire insulation and the tape. That is for your LC1 connection.

I put 2.35 as the switch point for the LC-1 because I was told that was correct for that wideband. If 2.5 is more accurate for 14.7 then you should of course use that.

Thanks to both you and Scott. Please accept my apologies on behalf of my old poor eyes. I just figured it could mean lambda because that's what the LC-1 manual refers to.

One question I need Chad specifically to answer is whether I will be needing any additional instructions to proceed with the fan control mod, such as type of wire or anything you may think. The high engine temps are making my car consume much more coolant than I would like.

Regards,

Rafa

Rafa. Your car shouldn't be consuming coolant at all. If you are losing coolant you are either leaking it or burning it because of a blown head gasket.
For the fan mod you will be able to use standard 18 gauge wire at the MS Harness. You are going to have to use one of the SPR outputs, they're near the DB37 connector, on top of the PCB board. You will run a wire from SPR1, to the proto area and connect it as shown in this picture: http://www.diyautotune.com/images/mo...control001.jpg

Then on the MS harness, open the DB37 connector and solder a wire to pin #3. That will be the output for the Fans. I'll have to look up the pin on the patch harness for your fans though. I'll do that tonight.

Understood, thanks. About the losing coolant issue; I have to check because I didn't check it when it came out of the shop.

BTW, not much sleep today. Better get some rest, the 31st is fast approaching :gay:

About the LC1, I'll take my car to another shop on Wednesday and carefully go over the wiring.

Got it Scott, thank you. I still don't know wtf is wrong with my LC1; I'll revisit that issue later on when I get additional info.

You rock!:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Rafa

you need to read through my how-to, i have a diagram with more pics.

Yeah I know. I also have to translate it for the friend who's going to be doing it.

I'm going to change the name of this thread to "the neverending story":mad:.

So I spent the day at the shop trying to fix some last minute issues before going back to work.

1.- We connected the LC-1 to the MS so it now reads AFRs correctly.
2.- We installed the aluminum plate as per Braineack's thread.
3.- We messed around with the car's idle settings because I've never been able to start the A/C since I went turbo without the car stalling.

Now, I don't know what settings my tuner changed on the Idle settings page but when I went to fire up the car to leave his shop by car fired up and then died. I checked on the MS and couldn't see the 2 outside leds firing up. I connected it to the laptop and couldn't get any communication. After some sweat we found out that the ignition fuse had failed. We changed that fuse and I got home. About 1 hour later, my wife has to go to the supermarket and I offered to take her (first time she was getting in my car after installing the turbo btw) and what do you know? the car fires up, stalls and dies and would not fire up again. Of course we took her car to the sm.

As soon as we came back I took out the laptop and went to the car. Once again no communication to the MS and the leds won't light up.

So I ask, which is the easiest way for me to go back to the settings Chad sent me?

I'm definitely too old for this shit! :mad:

Sorry,

Rafa

zip you msq and upload....sounds like he moved wires around....

rule #1. tuners don't tune, they'll fiddle around and hope they don't break things.

Yeah - blowing fuses is very unlikely to be software. Got to find out what's going on there before you break something

This is what you're asking for?

I'm scratching my head about this one. The only wires he ever touched today had to do with the LC1 WB. I don't recall either of us ever going close to the MS harness. We disconnected the cops to do the aluminum sheet install. I have to say that the only other thing he did was open the Idle page and change some settings there. I guess he burned the new ones to the MS and my guess is that I'm having problems with that particular part of the MS:confused:

This is strange. Your MS doesn't even have control of the idle so I don't know what settings he has been messing with. The only settings he could change to mess with anything during idle is your fuel and spark. I'll check out your msq.

I almost forgot; before losing communication with the MS the first time I got some resets on the MS as I was watching the screen. I know it's fine still. If I were to put another ignition fuse it would connect again. I just don't want to do that just yet (for one it's night here and second, I don't want to press my luck).

I have to speculate that this is similar to the last time but the cops held up this time. Maybe we're burning some files to the MS we shouldn't be burning to it?

Shit, this makes me feel like a moron! :mad:

I really don't see how just software would cause issues. Do you have the current limiting resistors in?

Either way, one thing makes sense - run it off a stim, check the current. If it's drawing a lot of current when alone, something is shorted on the MS. If its drawing it only when plugged into the car, then it's something in the car's wiring. If it's been reseting, my guess is maybe it's the power wire to the MS, or a short in the case - like a loose wire shorting to the body of the MS inside.

If it's none of that, next I'm look at measuring the resistance across the fuel injection lines and the ignition lines, and see if there's a short there.

The only way to do this stuff if you can't think of something obvious is systematically, or you'll repeat yourself a lot, and get frustrated.

I built his MS. He doesn't have a stim to hook anything up. Though it was all built correctly and ran my own car without issues for a good amount of time. Plus he has been using it for a while without problems. Besides the idle issue he spoke of when turning on A/C, even though that doesn't have much to do with MS considering idle is left to his stock ECU. Engine wiring or something similar is what I'm thinking, though it's hard to troubleshoot someone elses wiring job when you have no idea what is going on there.

Yeah - then that would be my guess as well. Something "magically" coming lose inside the case is a long shot. Something magically coming loose in the boomslang is a possibility since it seems more physical abuse - and wiring in other places is also very likely. If it was just not starting, I would wonder about a sensor line, but it seems like some power is going through there to blow a fuse.

The only wires we touched had to to do with the LC1. We were having trouble having the MS read AFRs and thought that the LC1 O2 sensor had gone bad. Those are at the driver's feet. Any mess in the wiring harnesses must be at that location. That could be it. I'll see if I can find anything. I'm going to disconnect the MS just in case (lost communication with it yesterday anyways).

Thanks

The LC-1 does have a power resistor in it, and can flow a few amps. And it has two grounds, if one got weird and touched the switched power from the ecu that would do it.

Anyway, too much theory, not enough checking. :-)

I put a 20amp fuse there this morning and voila! no more issues. I think it did have to do with the LC-1. Before that it wasn't properly connected. Now the MS is reading it perfectly but the gauge in the pod is reading it backwards:dunno:

I guess I have issues with that harness. I'll have to have it thoroughly checked. Thanks for all the help.

BTW, when is the DIY autotune MSPNP going to come out for 96/97? I got no clue about Maps. Everytime I mess with some map I get it wrong.

At least my car is back working and I finally secured the cops.

This MS thing is not for seniors. :gay:

Someone should give you a map!! At least as a starting point. Then look it over, sometimes just cause someone is using them doens't mean they aren't weird.


Checking the harness is tedious but not difficult, something you could do yourself. Take a lot of notes, make up a spreadsheet, etc. But it should be something you can do and give you both a little peace of mind and a oneness between horse and rider.

Lol Abe, the only thing is I'm not sure whether at this moment I'm the jockey or the ass! haha

Thanks and yeah I want a map (there is no smilie with a crying baby).

The MSQ is he running is the one i made. It utilizes many of the same settings I use because we have the same injectors and motor. So most things are close. The other settings are from the DIYautotune map and are standard from miata to miata.

I get that Chad, but Cristian already fooled around some with your original settings so now I can't compare with the ones I had. He changed the spark settings and the VE table.

At least now I can see the real AFRs in my MS. I just went out for a short drive and I'm seeing 12s while in boost so it's cool.

Thanks,

Rafa

wow Even Rafa is turboed before hustler :rofl:

Take a datalog and post it up or email it to me rafa.

Yeah; go figure Magna. Happy 2008! Missed you man! :gay:

Next thing is to re-read Joe's thread on how to install a WI tank; find one more intelligent than me to do the install and I'll be wet! Almost forgot, I first have to buy the kit from WOT. If I buy any other he might just kill me.

Got it Chad, I'll email you my last datalog.

I suggest a SOLID four hours with one set up before further changing it. Really, any new system will have a lot of teething problems. Get used to it, see what works. Then add water.

Also, run your intake filter under the passenger seat. Then, when your rider wets him/herself, you get controlled intake temps.

Ok guys, first of all thanks for all the help. My car is finally running quite well.

Here's my latest datalog.