Ms installation issues.
 

Ok guys, we had opened the Megatune file and connected the ms. At that time is was showing all the parameters and responding to commands. We were finding typical issues such as idling problems and were just trying to fix those. We proceeded then to open the easytherm file and that is were we screwed up. In the following step as per Braineacks instructions:

"Once you have changed the settings, click on the "Write .inc and .s19 Files" button on the bottom of the EasyTherm screen
The file that you want to write to is the 'msns-extra.s19' file in the C:\EFI\ folder in the MSnSE file that you unzipped to earlier." we burned this file to the wrong file and now the ms will not work.

What are my options? I am trying to find his reflash instructions without success so far.

thanks,

Rafa

download a fresh copy of 029v. then mod the new .s19 file again and make a new msns-extra_mod.s19 file with easytherm. and upload that....

I'm sending you an email with the MSII downloader and the correct firmware file for your MS Rafa. One sec.

Thanks guys. Chad, we are going to call you.

Sorry i missed the call i have my phone now.

I am the one who is sorry (it is about 7am for you now):o

Thanks for the help. We got the files you sent.

Ok Chad, we jumped the boat loader pins with a small wire but when we try to download the new s.19 file to the ms it shows a message: "exception caught: 4".

Any ideas?

Rafa

You need to insert the boot loader while the MS is turned off. Then power cycle the MS on and proceed with burning the firmware. Did you change the baud rate on the MSII downloader to 9600?

Hey Chad, left my tuner's shop. I got to go back later to pick up my laptop and the MS. I plan to bring it back home with me and asking my son for assistance. We did try to connect the MSII downloader file to 9600 and the connection failed. We got the a message with a "4" code number. Sorry, I can't recall precisely the message. I'll let you know in a few hours when I pick it up.

FWIW, we originally installed the Megatune program and it was connected to the MS. We were facing issues about the car not wanting to idle and I suggested we opened the Easytherm program. Somehow he burnt a file (msm019? or something like that) to the wrong program and the MS stopped connecting to the laptop. Things can't be done in a hurry. Oh, well, c'et la vie!

Thanks,

Rafa

p.s. I just reread your post and I'll try that when I get it home. I also asked my tuner to put the car's original injectors in and I'll try to tune it myself when I get the car back tomorrow.

I might be out of my league here, but why 9600?? The MS-II uses 115k, so you shouldn't be able to talk that way.

Also, which boot-loader are you using? The MS-II has one on the daughtercard, do NOT use the one on the main board, they are not compatible.

we use the MSII downloader for MSI too. but we gotta use 9600... :)

For MSI you have to use the boot jumpers on the main board Abe. There is no daughter board on MSI.

That sounds like a plan though Rafa, i just got back from the beach so if you want you can give me a call or we can chat live using gmail or AIM. Ask your son about either one.

Too... Strange....:eek:

Ok guys, I've brought the ms back home with me. We downloaded the file Chad sent me but there's still no connection between the car and the ms.

We opened the ms case and I would like to know what to look for. My son Manny (software engineer) is trying to assist.

I think there is another issue here. The way I figure it this all started when we flashed the s19 file to the wrong place and after that lost all connection between the ms and the car. What should I look for in this case? Before that we had fired up the car and the only issue we were facing was that the car would die and not idle but we had communication between the ms and the car.

Regards,

Rafa

So we followed instructions and know that the MS is connecting but we can only get it to connect to the car through the "Original BG Configuration" file and we figure that the 029s file is corrupted.

Can I get some suggestions about what we are doing wrong?

Thanks

It sounds like there was an issue with reflashing the board and the reflash somehow didn't take hold. Try reloading it with 029V - that's a bit more stable than 029S but will use the same files.

Matt, thanks for your input. We are using the 029V. We had the ms with connection when we fired the car. My tuner burned the 029V file to the wrong location. Since then, even with Chad's assistance and new downloader we haven't been able to connect the ms with the either 029V or the one that appears on the screen below it but we get communication with the original configuration file.

What would happen if we tune the car using the "Original Configuration" file?

thanks,

Rafa

No idea where you got 029s, that's not what i sent you. Here is a copy of the new 029y4, which Matt said was the most recent stable version.
I modified it using easytherm for your coolant sensor.

I also emailed this to you and Manny.

Got it Chad; thanks. As I pmed you before, when I'm through I'll post a formal apology. This issue has nothing to do with the MS you made at all. We just messed up and burned the original file to the wrong location. I still don't know myself where was that location.

Thanks for everything. I owe you. Shitty of me to mess up your vacation:mad:

Rafa

I still don't know WTF we did wrong:vash: but, my MS is working fine despite my limited skills.

A big THANK YOU to you all and specially to CHAD my personal "guru". My apologies for everything. Another satisfied MS customer.

Merry Christmas and happy boosting to all!

Rafa

Ok guys, I must be the dumbest guy around. now I got NO SPARK.

Let me give a chronology of what we did today. We had to take out the car's oil crank case because we had an oil leak. We bought the parts needed yesterday and re-installed it. When we went to turn on the car we discovered we did not have any spark so we proceeded to do the following:

1) With the MS still connected to the car's ECU we checked for spark in the #2 cylinder. No luck. (I already pmed Chad asking for help and he told me to check #1 and #2. I already left the shop but called and asked to have it done).
2) We tested the coils and we didn't find anything wrong with them.
3) The electrician pulsed a wire plug to check and could only get feedback from the fuel pump.
4) We then disconnected the MS and tried to crank the car with the stock ECU; no luck. No spark
5) Opened the stock ECU and could not find anything wrong with it with the tester.
6) We reconnected the MS and opened Megatune and found it read RPMs.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Rafa

BTW, since the car has all the turbo kit's hardware already installed I plan on towing it back home tomorrow because this way I will have internet connection while in the car for sure.

Sounds like the ignition modules are burned then. Sometimes getting the spark output settings wrong can damage the modules and not kill them instantly, but you can have them then die a couple days later.

I don't know how the docs are on the MS-I, I imagine they are a lot better, but using the spark output settings recommended (Inverted, active low) were wrong when I used the recommended LED outputs. Fried one of my coils.

The fact that you lost both is a little weird, the place to check is at the connector feeding the coils - do you see a voltage between (on my '00 the brown or brown/white) control wire and ground? You should only see it while firing, so if there's a voltage before you're running, then you've likely fried the coils.

You can also check the resistance across the inputs on the coil.
-Abe.

his coils were dead. it's running now. i suspect a flashed ecu with the coil still connected.

Shit Braineack, you're the most informed guy about everything Miata! How the hell did you know it was running? BTW, many thanks to all contributors and specially to you, lazzer and Chad.

Now on to other issues. It idles pretty good but I have to connect a laptop to find out about what's going on. The moment I try to go to WOT it cuts the spark.

I'm not asking about tuning yet (got to do some extra reading first). I do, nevertheless have a question to pose just in case someone else faces the same issue in the future: of the 2 coils that come in the car, I could only physically see damage in the one that goes to 2 & 3. To the naked eye, the one going to 1 & 4 had no visible damage. The question then is: could the crank angle sensor have been reading this one and cutting spark?

Anyways; SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY CAR IS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what is you over boost protection setting at?

Scott; what???????????????? I'm kidding. I'm waiting for my son to get back from work to start messing around with the MS (last time we did something with it i spent 2 weeks without a car:gay:

I'll wait a about 1 hour if you don't mind. One thing I know for sure is that they did not connect my boost gauge properly at the shop. I not only can't see boost but the vacuum figures are messed up.

I'll check all the Ms settings in a few minutes. I even took pics of my getto cops but to me those look beautiful.

Got to go, my son just got in.

FYI, I have two dead coils (one from age, one from a MS accident) and both *look* fine. Measure the resistance between the pins. If they don't match a good one, it's junk. Not like 10% different, but a half a mega ohm instead of 1.5k, that's how mine was.

Got it but in my case I already set up the cops. Love them. I guess I'll have to order 2 Miata coils just in case.

Overboost protection at 1.5 psi. Some pics.

I'm worried about coolant temps. I figure they did not properly connect the radiator fans or I have a blown fuse. I'll check.

Any suggestion on the VE table?

Another thing, when I accelerate the car the LC-1 gauge shows crazy rich numbers (all the way to the gauges limit). While at idle everything is fine (I guess around 14 to 1?)

Rafa

My guess would be acceleration enrichment, which dumps extra fuel when you open the throttle rapidly. My old carburated bike literally had a squirt gun and you could see it "shoot" gas into the turbo. It was exciting. :-)

190* isn't that hot. A lot of computers won't turn on the fans till 200. I don't know if you're a metric person, but water doesn't even boil (clean water, atmospheric pressure) till 214*. I have my fans come on ~180 and me thermo open at 160, but the stock temp for the thermo to open is 180, some cars 190, and there's no point in running the fans with the thermostat closed! :-)

I run my fans off the WUE light, so it's easy to tell the MS to turn them on (set the initial state to 1) and see if the fans work, don't even need to start the car.

change the overboost to 5psi. are you turboed?


fix you lc-1.

Abe, I got most of the info. Even though I was originally taught metric, the years living on this side of the pond have forced me to learn the US values.

One quick question; what is WUE? sorry. I'd also like to do the mod where my fans would kick in at around 180 and for my thermo to open at 160. If it's not too much hassle; what would be the best way to achieve this? Our local weather is pretty hot and humid all year round.

5psi. Got it. About the LC-1, that's #2 in my to do list tomorrow. I'm using one I had bought used but at the shop they installed it less than 2 feet from the turbo. #1 is following your info and tightning the coils. Installing the aluminum plate first thing tomorrow morning.

If I'm turboed or not, we'll find out in a few minutes when I take my car out for a spin after changing the overboost to 5psi.

Thanks to all,

Rafa

BTW, here's a pic of my guetto cop wiring harness:gay:

well, change the overboost to whatever psi you dont want to hit. like you if run 6psi, make it 8-9psi. to prevent overboosting. that's most likely why it cut out.

make sure you lower the dwell with those cops. 3.5 cranking 2.5 running.

Warm Up Enrichment. It's just a light (the middle) on the MS, but you can use it for an output, which I did, to drive my fans. If that doesn't make sense, I'll dig up some pics/info - I also upgraded my output transistors to handle more current (just a bit, 2n2222a's).

The thermostat opening is a purely mechanical part. Go to NAPA and get a 160* thermostat. I like it cause the car runs cooler, I dislike it because the heater is near useless on cold days.

I want to make a electronically controlled thermostat, but that's a bigger project for another day.


Do you know how to unhook the wastegate? Pull the c-clamp off the arm from the can. Then it's relatively hard to get into boost, and lets you safely tune the car.

P.S. Do you run the COPS in parallel??

Great info there Abe. Thanks. I'll see if I can get a 160* locally (I couldn't care any less about cold days! :gay:). I just went out for a short ride around the block. Coolant temps showed 215*. Not happy with that one. I heard the fans come into operation only when the MS read that temp. Not happy with that. I'll take a serious look into it tomorrow morning. I'm running a PWR radiator and the fan shroud and spals offered by FCM. I also committed to buying the new coolant re-route system developed by Emilio's associate but that's at least 2 months away.

The info on how to unhook the WG is good but at my age I really don't need to do that. I've also got the Knocksense sensor installed (granted in the wrong location, right next to the CAS and I'll also get to changing it soon) but one thing I did which I really like and I'll take some pics and show them just in case anyone else wants to do it was to put the led on a small hole I made to the 2 gauge pod I have installed. Love that location, it scares the hell out of me.

Please keep me posted on your electronic controlled thermostat. It sounds like a really good idea and I'm very chicken when it comes to my engine's water temps.

Finally, whenever you can, please post some pics on the WUE. It makes sense but I'd like to know more.

Thanks a lot.

Rafa

I need some explanation about this datalog. I got no clue but this is what we recorded.

Email me your datalog Rafa and your current MSQ. I'll check things out.
How much boost do you plan to run?
Your temperature readings are probably 5-10* off Rafa, it's hard to say but your fans should turn on around 207* I think so it's pretty close.

Abe, he has an external WG, he can't disconnect the arm that doesn't exist.

Got it guru :bowdown:. Doesn't this type of post sound like music to your ears? It sure does to mines! I mean, this doesn't compare to the whining about not been able to fire it up.

BTW, any simple way to set the temp for the fans to turn on lower than that?

I'll get on with sending you the datalog and current MSQ (actually I'll get my son to do it for me).

At least I've felt some of the acceleration while in 1st gear. If that is a taste of things to come it's all good.

Regards,

Rafa

Well when i built your MS i could have included a modification for Fan control so we could turn them on at a lower temp. Didn't think you would be needing it with a PWR and the FCM fans/shroud. It's a little late for all that now though. As of now the only way I know for you to turn your fans on at a earlier temp would be to wire in a inline switch to turn them on manually or get in the diagnostic box and jumper them on all the time. Pretty sure that can be done.

If you want i can line you and Manny up on how to modify the MS for fan control. It's not very hard, and it takes a couple electronic components but if I put them in the mail when i got back you could get it done sometime this spring no problem.

You might want to get the seal, too, though you can RTV it in, but when you take out the 180 thermo, you'll likely wreck the old paper seal. The real reason for the NAPA part is not that it's 160, but that it opens REALLY WIDE.
http://abefm.smugmug.com/photos/90183214-L.jpg
Original/Mazda_New/NAPA
If I could find a 180 that opened as wide as my 160 does, I'd get that.
Addtional pics:
http://abefm.smugmug.com/gallery/1807308


Oh, yeah, that's one of the least clean things in my car, just sitting there in front of the guages. It works well, really gets my attention. I'm afraid to put the new one in, since I'll lose my carefully selected setting on the trim pot. I'm sure I'll figure it out.

Pulling the WG is great - there's SO much more of the off-boost map you can readily tune that way. It takes about 15 seconds with a cold motor. Just pull the c-clip and lift the arm off.

http://abefm.smugmug.com/photos/55480962-L.jpg

It's unhooked here (so is the turbo, this will ALSO limit boost. :-P)

The three status LED's can be used as general outputs (at least on the MS-II), you MS-I guys use them to run your ignition (two of them) leaving the third for "spark C" - on mine, I have the output powering the solenoids which close my fans.

I put a 2.2 k-ohm resistor in, and they weren't working really well. Recommended was 1k. Now I have 470 ohms and they work perfect. Basically, all I do is use an output of the MS to power the relays, and turn the fans on, then I select what temp I want them to come on at. I think the MS table is off (temps were reporting high!).

ABE, he's running an external Tial WG. There is no actuator arm to release.

nothing smart to say here, but congrats to you Rafa for getting everything sorted out, im very happy for you, i cant wait myself to get my car fired up with MS
Cheers

Ok, the first option I can take care right now. In fact the Opel Corsa Manny drives is wired that way. I'll do that for the time being.

About the second option; do you think RadioShack would have those electronic components? plenty of those here plus the General Manager is a very close friend of mine. I can ask him the favor to order the components if they carry them. I'm sure between Manny and me we can safely take care of that.

I have to read Abe's post. I'll have questions.

Thanks,

Thanks Dan, I appreciate your assistance. Smart enough for me.

Hey Abe, I checked your link. I agree with your concept. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get a 180* one but I'll check some local shops. I want some info on the specific NAPA part so I can contact them. I like that one. Let me know what parts I should order.

Another thing I'm going to do tomorrow morning is to install the real water temp I bought (it's an Autometer and that fucker was expensive!). I hate the one in my car. When it finally reacts my car is already overheating:mad:

What year is your car? You can "linearlize" your guage. It's a big pain in the butt, but it looks good when you do it. Basically, get the stock guage to respond to what the sender is saying. It takes some soldering, some experimentation, etc.

Shoot, I don't have the part number, when I went to Vista all my old email didn't come with me (someone have a PST to anything-else converter??)... But go on miata.net and search "NAPA 160" or similar and you'll find it soon enough. I was on the miatapower.net list for a while and I know it's on there.
-Abe.

You can get the components to do the Fan mod at radioshack Rafa. These two links have parts lists and directions on how to complete it.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/sho...18&postcount=3
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...#Add_Output_v3

And afterwards you don't want me to call you my "guru":bowdown:

I'll read both very carefully and get back to you with my questions but I'll wait a few days to do it. In the meantime I'm going to do the same thing I did with my son's Opel. Those fans are going to be working overtime for a few days!

Thanks guys. It's almost 10 pm and I haven't slept well in quite some time. FWIW Chad, as far as I know you've helped turbo the first Miata in DR. You all should be very proud.

In a few days I'll start a thread to convey my feelings. In the meantime:

THANKS FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART AND HAPPY NEW YEAR! I feel like I should give you a rest for a few days.

p.s. Chad, you should also be proud of the fact that Cristian has faced issues of his own in the last 2 days and he had no input on the cops conversion or starting my car. I'm running it at 93 octane with toluene as a booster.

Happy trails,

Rafa

I think the part number for the 160* thermostat at Napa is #BA 1430687

Abe, i'm in dire need of some temp gauge linearization help. When I did it i followed some odd instructions on m.net and now i have a gauge that sits in the middle and never moves. From the time i turn the car on to the time i turn it off nothing changes. Do you have a certain writeup you followed, or added to. I remember you saying you used a POT, but i could be mistaken.

Sigh, again, not having access to my old email is killing me.

The be all end all article was by Wally from miatapower and miata.net: http://www.gravitydesign.net/saturn/miata/mtglp.cfm

But I guess his site is down. Shoot. I'd go asking him about it, he did have a write up I used. But if you dig around on my site, you should get which pins to use.

http://abefm.smugmug.com/gallery/3923107#227732361 If you're careful you should figure out where I've put stuff, and mayve with the full size versions get an idea of the values.

I do know the pot ended up at almost a dead short, so using a smaller one would work. Also, use a high current power supply, I was shocked at how much current this thing drank.

But in the end, I could adjust both the offset and the scale. Worked quite well.

Looking at the pics, there's TWO pots. There's also a zener diode I removed, that's what makes it NON linear.

Thanks so much for the pictures. I don't have a extra thermocouple but I know my fan's come on around 207-210* and I know my coolant reading in MS is within plus or minus 3* of that it seems. I think I can handle all that. Just have to find small POTs like you used.

Chad, we finally got the car to 8psi of boost without detonation. Ignition was very retarded. Thanks, I know that was you trying to take care of my car. I appreciate it. We also changed the VE table, the overboost protection and the rev limiter to 7400. Don't worry I'm babying it.

A couple extra little things. The fans were not working because the fuse was blown. Changed it this morning but the fans will only come in after the MS reads something like 209*. Too high and they immediately come in when I turn the A/C on. I'm running 93 octane based on the Toluene mix. The other thing was the MS not reading AFR; they had connected it to the Lambda at the shop, when they changed it to the O2 sensor it started reading it. I still have to change the LC-1 to the one WOT sent me. I'll also be moving the bung further away from the turbo.

Thanks for everything.

Rafa

welcome to every miata ever.

Once you do the fan mod you'll be able to turn them on and off when ever you like. :)

For now you should be fine though. Glad it's running well.

You mean every turbo miata ever, right?

Thanks for everything.

That won't be for quite some time. Even Manny is scared of that one. I got to find someone with a good electronics base. No way I am going to allow just anyone to open my MS. :cool:

BTW, I figure I'll be visiting the Dyno on the first or second week of 2008. :bigtu:

stock fans kick on at 207*, which is why your's kicked on at 207* now you just have a gauge that tells you that...

Don't be so afraid, soldering isn't that big a deal. Building your own jimstim is excelent practice. Really the fan mod is pretty simple