MS + Vortech FMU? Do they get along? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-09-2007, 02:57 PM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (24)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 3,778
Total Cats: 35
Default MS + Vortech FMU? Do they get along?

I'm wondering if I install Megasquirt before I get bigger injectors will the Vortech FMU make tuning with Megasquirt harder?
Bryce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 03:05 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (21)
 
paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Point Pleasant, NJ
Posts: 2,957
Total Cats: 2
Default

just did mine last night/this morning with MSPNP and Vortech. 8:1 disc. 265cc MSM injectors.

either way you probably have to adjust the fueling settings so it's probably 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other.
paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 03:05 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (21)
 
paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Point Pleasant, NJ
Posts: 2,957
Total Cats: 2
Default

oh, and i'm a noob. my first attempt at this sort of thing
paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 03:29 PM   #4
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (24)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 3,778
Total Cats: 35
Default

That answers my question very well.
Yeah I was wondering wether the fuel pressure going up would affect the tuning settings in Megasquirt.

This is my first personal experience with forced induction, never even seen under the hood of a turbo or supercharged car before. BUT I've done plenty of reading from having a N/A dsm for 2 years.
Bryce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 04:09 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Loki047's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,145
Total Cats: 0
Default

Do you need the FMU then at all?
Loki047 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 04:20 PM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

Run lower boost until you get the correct injectors. Running both is just asking for a headache.
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 04:21 PM   #7
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (24)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 3,778
Total Cats: 35
Default

If I plan on upping the boost with 1.6 injectors I assume I will still need it. I'm going to do a little more reading esp. Braneacks DIY turbo faq (Fueling section) and actually apply some of those equations to see how much room I would have left on the 1.6 injectors.

If the 1.6 injectors can flow enough fuel for 5 psi using MS without the Vortech FMU then I'll remove the Vortech. If not then I'll buy bigger injectors first.

Jayc,

Hit the nail on the head.

Last edited by Bryce; 08-09-2007 at 04:24 PM. Reason: Lol I said "make enough fuel"
Bryce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 04:36 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

I'm just guessing here, but I really doubt the 1.6 injectors can support much boost at stock FP.
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 04:54 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

You MIGHT be ok at 5psi, but you'd be on the ragged edge. 140whp would probably be doable.
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 05:02 PM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

Why screw around? Forget the FMU and do it right. If you try and make it work with the 1.6's alone, then you're pushing the limits of the injectors. If you experience a boost spike and the injectors are already maxed out, then you run lean and crack a piston. It's never a good idea to run the limits of any part of your system.

For cheap insurance at the low boost you're talking about, just buy these and only tune it once.
https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-parts-sale-trade-5/1-8-injectors-11709/

You'll still need bigger to go farther, 440's are PLENTIFUL and cheap:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/supra...spagenameZWDVW

550's w/no Bid:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/550cc...spagenameZWDVW
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 05:19 PM   #11
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (24)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 3,778
Total Cats: 35
Default

Ok well I plan to make 200rwhp eventually tuned with megasquirt. So I can wait till I have MS then get some 440's and just run stock fuel pressure.

440s are good enough for 200+ yes?
Bryce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 06:05 PM   #12
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

more than enough....the FMU and MS wouldn't be a horrible idea with a smaller injector...it's not ideal, but it's not like it wouldn't work.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 06:54 PM   #13
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (24)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 3,778
Total Cats: 35
Default

Thanks for all the help.

From what I understand running MS and a vortech or any other Rising rate fuel pressure regulator will complicate things but not to the point of impossibility.

Me? I'm gonna go for Megasquirt and bigger injectors to make tuning easier as I've never tuned an engine before.
Bryce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 06:55 PM   #14
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
Total Cats: 0
Default

either way you still would want a regulator that can do 1:1. For every pound of boost you loose a pound in the the fuel rail.

What I mean to say is, say you have a system that runs 5psi, your fuel rail runs 60, so trying to inject 60 psi into a system with 5 psi in it only leaves you with 55 psi of pressure ( less fuel being injected). In short, you will max out your injectors faster.
Chamuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 08:38 PM   #15
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,900
Total Cats: 1,792
Default

I dont see how it will complicate anything.

just compensate in the fuel map.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 12:06 AM   #16
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 375
Total Cats: 0
Default

Even 550s are cheap, I picked up a set for $75 shipped on ebay.
StankCheeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 01:08 AM   #17
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
akaryrye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Central California
Posts: 2,526
Total Cats: 0
Default

hmm i remember hearing about this sort of thing a while back, Its of interest to me since I was boosting 13-15 psi the other day with a few short bursts up to 17psi (dont worry guys, i got a fresh engine, lots of timing retard, and running like 10:1 or richer) Anyway, its a bit concerning to think that my stock 45lbs/in is being pushed down to 30 lbs/in at those boost levels. Well so far im not running out of fuel and if I ever have a problem Ive got a BEGi FMU i could plug in
akaryrye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 01:13 AM   #18
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Bad plan, IMO. I don't mind bumping 0vac fuel pressure (or in MS terminology 100kpa fuel pressure) with a NA type FMU. But you're just adding complication and removing tuning resolution when using a rising rate type FMU with a standalone.

You want 200rwhp? Get some upper 200s-lower300s cc/min injectors and be done. Especially if you're new to it. The smaller injectors will easier to tune, easier to idle, and more forgiving. You don't need 440 injectors for 200 hp.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 09:46 AM   #19
:(
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: nowhere
Posts: 8,281
Total Cats: 2
Default

I dunno how much injector can we run if people have trouble with 700+ c injectors a fpr might help out quite abit.
magnamx-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB Vortech FMU: So Cal pref FHS WTB 0 03-11-2007 07:09 PM
Begi 2025 FMU tuning shinobix DIY Turbo Discussion 23 12-20-2006 12:12 PM
WTB: Vortech FMU 8:1 disc iWeasel410 WTB 1 11-30-2006 11:50 PM
FMU Tweak Braineack DIY Turbo Discussion 29 11-11-2006 08:52 PM
FS: Flyin Miata MBC, Gauges, Vortech FMU, BEGi FMU Ben Miata parts for sale/trade 4 11-02-2006 02:56 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:12 PM.