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Old 06-17-2010, 12:44 PM   #1
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Default MS2 upgrade worth it?

I'm sending in my PNP for repair, and I was thinking of maybe having DIYautotune upgrade it to MSII while it's there. My main reasons for wanting to upgrade? There's a few things that annoy the **** out of me with MS1.

1: Hot IAT lean. Anytime it's hot out. The thing idles soo lean. It happens to everyone. It's not heatsoak. It's not sensor placement. It's just annoying. Retune and then on a cool 65F day you're running rich. Retune again. Nobody seems to be able to fix it. Everyone I know running MS1 on various cars has this problem. MSII has adjustable MAT enrichment. Should solve the problem nicely.

2: **** IAC control. Mostly the problem is with the A/C on. It doesn't respond fast enough, sometimes overshoots, sometimes bounces around. You set the warm idle speed to 900rpms and with the a/c on it idles at 700. Why doesn't it increase the DC to make it 900? No idea. Even with the A/C off it's a bit inaccurate. I've read that idle control on MS2 is far improved.

3: Miscellaneous bugs. I've got a random miss at idle when the engine is warm when running at or around 14.7:1. Goes away if I make it richer (like 13:1). This happened when bone stock, with MS as the only mod on the whole car, running off the basemap. Plug in the stock ECU it goes away running the same 14:7 AFR. Cant figure it out. MS2 might solve this.

MS2 seems way more refined. Sequential injection seems nice (although I'm not sure what's involved in making an upgraded MSPNP do this). Plus after years of using MS1 on various cars I'm bored and want to play with something else. Do I need a reality check? Thoughts/opinions?
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:55 PM   #2
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1. major improvement (more so when you move AIT sensor)
2. major improvement with PID closed loop control (and will vastly improve when they add a/c idle up code)
3. same, on MS they really like to idle at 13.5:1, but I never had issues idling at 14.7-15
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:11 PM   #3
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Yeah my sensor is located in the cold-side outlet of the intercooler. Nowhere near the engine bay. It's even happened on a cold start when it was really 100F outside.

The upgrade sounds good so far.

Any reason why MS likes to idle so rich? I didn't have this problem on my last car (Mazda 626 with FE3 engine).
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:00 PM   #4
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i dunno, it just seems to. probably cause we use the 2 squirts per injection and not 4 or what have you.
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:05 PM   #5
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What's involved in an upgrade? Can this be done at home by buying parts, or does it have to be sent in?

I'm planning on installing mine this weekend. All this reading about issues is not helping my confidence level.
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Old 06-17-2010, 04:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
3. same, on MS they really like to idle at 13.5:1, but I had issues idling at 14.7-15
mine idled fine at stoich with MS1

that said you should man the **** up and get sequential going, lean idle is great and dead smooth.
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Old 06-17-2010, 05:00 PM   #7
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that was a typo, should say:

but I never had issues idling at 14.7-15.0:1
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
mine idled fine at stoich with MS1

that said you should man the **** up and get sequential going, lean idle is great and dead smooth.
So I guess that's the main benefit with sequential. That's what I thought.
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:29 PM   #9
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yeah, sequential is supposed to be butter. Ken (one of the devlopers) has been urging me to go, talking all about the benefits. I plan to when the MSX expansion board comes out, and ill run seq. fuel/spark. Otherwise on MS3 on MS2 my idle has always been really smooth at stoich.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
that was a typo, should say:

but I never had issues idling at 14.7-15.0:1
Same here, on MS1 using the 3.57 board and HiRes code.
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Old 06-30-2010, 04:11 PM   #11
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@anarchyx34 - i am interested in doing the same, or just changing to another ecu altogether... mostly because of point #1 - hot iat lean
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Old 07-03-2010, 12:59 PM   #12
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Well I just got my upgraded PNP back from DIYautotune. I'm working on the MSQ file now. Hope to have it running tonight. I'm going to poke around the forums for a MS2 Extra basemap as that should help me get up and running quicker.
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Old 07-03-2010, 01:19 PM   #13
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Maybe a stupid question but with MS1 and Tunerstudio aren't the MAT setting adjustable? Tunerstudio didn't send up any red flags when I changed those setting for my DIY PNP ms1.
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:57 AM   #14
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Well it runs... just not well. I AM A ******* MORON that accidentally had set spark output to inverted. I knew better, thought I had changed it to no. Apparently I didn't. I can haz new coilz?

Also the fan runs constantly. Cant figure that one out. Aside from that, the upgrade went smoothly.
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