MS3 basic firmware update
 

Probably a noob question, but I wanted to verify before I possibly do something dumb. I have a MS3 basic from Rev and I have a new 949 36-2 trigger wheel to install. it appears my firmware doesn't have the option in the menu and I need to update the firmware. I am assuming I can use the one in attached picture. Never done it before and are there any tips on process? Supply power to all, good USB connection, plug and chug?

Thanks for any help and I apologize for noobness. I just didn't want to assume wrong
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...bc1988078b.png

Yes. to all of your questions.

It should be very simple. It will ask you if you have an ms3pro or just ms3. You want just ms3.

I like to save a copy of my tune outside the normal folder in case something goes awry.

Check with Rev before doing anything. He sometimes uses custom firmware.

Not on MS3-Basic. Standard FW. The above was his advice to me, standard FW. (I'm running 1.4.1).
I'm not sure about the enhanced and extreme, however.

And, the latest T/S lets you update FW while connected, not needing the separate procedure. (Update / Install Firmware)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...334d7f5b66.jpg

So it seems project cursed strikes again. I updates the firmware and now it won't sync. It will fire the car and run with throttle. It doesn't like it, but I got a composite log. I did backup the project and tried reloading the old tune file. I got about 84 errors and it says it fixed.

Composite log. It seems that it gets the sensors, but the little red light on TunerStudio say no sync.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...3BMMkp5OHk3SlE



Hopefully that will share the file.

Post tune

There is a bunch of garbage in the crank signal. Check your air gap.

Stock wheel? Or 36-2?

949 harmonic damper and 4 tooth wheel. I'll double check air gap. What makes you say air gap. Not doubting you, but trying to learn to diagnose some myself.

Stuff like this in the composite log.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...16082a2de3.png

But it didn't lose sync which is the weird part.

Post the old tunes and new tunes.

You went from what to 1.4.1?
Do you have a MSLabs CAN EGO box? I ask because I went from 1.3.x to 1.4.1 and the box and had sync loss problems. I took the box out and went back to analog O2 input to fix problem, but stayed with 1.4.1.

That issue is where Rev suggested 1.4.0, but I confess I did not try that.

New composite log after making the crank sensor gap 0.020 and giving the connections a once over.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...l9pNnNkeUhVUHM

I drove it home last night and other than the firmware update nothing was touched on the car. My brain says it was a firmware update that did it in. Which is great because this is currently my daily. Apologies for being a Debby downer. I'm a bit sick today and figured I could handle this update since "what could possibly go wrong?"

No can box. Nothing changed pre or post (well set air gap) the firmware update. I learned my lesson not to change very much each time I try stuff. Nothing sucks like chasing down what new thing went wrong out of 15.

Old tune just before the update I saved a couple days ago.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...zk2ZmZiSzR5U3M


"new" tune
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...EdYRUVYd3R0TU0

I will add it seems to really want to fight starting up. I get some kick back I didn't have before. Few back fires and all this starting and failing to run has the garage a little fumey.

I may not know how to correctly open other people's tunes, but I don't see any material difference between the two.

What was the old FW revision?

Quite interested in the resolution to this.

Yep, mine did that kind of thing. Changing the Crank Sensor changed nothing. Changing the Cam Sensor changed nothing.

I was on 1.2.3 firmware. Now 1.4.1. Not sure what happened. The compare tune shows zero changes. I noticed the "garbage" in the crank sensor a few minutes ago trying to see wtf. I did, repeat did/affirmative/positive disconnect the ignition coils during the firmware update. Curious if somehow the crank sensor got spazed? I have a spare around here somewhere. Maybe a quick swap in the morning to see.

Why does this thing hate me?

What tells the ecu what is a go/no go for the sensor inputs. I know there has to be a setting somewhere for the ecu to decide what is a 1 and what is a 0. The more I look at the logs the more it seems like a small calibration went weird. All the setting are the same, but what changed in the firmware?

Where do I find the sensor threshold section? The has to be a way. The sensor is analog and has a middle point, but the ecu only shows binary in the log. On (peak) or off (at the bottom). Where do I tell it at what value to ignore and make a 0 and what is enough to be a 1? I'm obviously not a computer wizard, just spit balling ideas cause I can't find any changes.

Or does the MS3 have the potentiometer aka "trim pots" cause that will suck. I remember when I had cam sensor issues reading about so trim pot to adjust, VR conditioner, or something like that.

Ms3/ms3x has trim pots. No idea about mslabs

I'm curious if somehow the code for the updated firmware messed with it. It appears the trim pots are before the ecu gets any information, so I'd assume the firmware has no decision with the trim, but weirder stuff happens. I wish I wasn't sick otherwise I could get frisky and see.

The ECU has no trims pots. Download and try 1.4.0 instead.

Nope, reloaded to 1.4.0 and nothing. The same situation. Car will fire up with some throttle and won't idle. It keeps running as it was before on 1.4.1 definitely ruff and makes the garage smell like half burned fuel. Yay.

New trigger log looks nicer I think.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0d5d0e57cf.png

Any other ideas? Without trim pots how do I adjust that stuff? I'm going to dual screen the tunes and see visually if there are any changes.

The screen above shows full sync though. Are you running sequential ignition? I see coil on plug in the ignition settings.

I am running LS coils wired for sequential. Is coil on plug not the same ish?

I see these as choices
Single coil
Wasted spark
Wasted cop
Coil on plug
Dual dizzy which I admit I don't know what is.



I know I'm not the first three and assume I am not the Dizzy. Coil on plug vs sequential should be the same timing and number of cylinders fired no?

I was in the hospital sick most of the day so haven't had a chance too mess with it. Don't worry, I'm not dying. I'm under veterans health care, yay socialized medicine and all its hurry up and wait glory.

As is sits the car should run
-LS coils (4 of them) set for sequential
-350cc sequential injection
-internal map sensor
-no turbo


My understanding from digging around the interwebz on a spotted cell phone connection is that tunerstudio should find the correct .ini file for the firmware number. The car does fire, run like crap, and the "sync" light icon is red and never flickers even though it runs and I get signals on the composite logger.

I will add that I got this message after the firmware update. I transferred the projects over to my desktop and got it to give me the error message from opening the last tune file. Currently looking at both tune with an old 1.2.4 firmware and the new. So far the idle control was turned off on the new and lets see what else we can find. Looking at this list of 84 erros I don't know where to find a lot of it.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...461476a164.png

I have nothing to add other than thank you for posting this.

I've got EXACTLY the same problem with my MS3-Basic. I'm also running 1.2.4 and any attempt to upgrade to 1.3.x or 1.4.x results in this same kind of chaos. All crank, no start. I gave up and just left it on 1.2.4 and haven't touched it since. If I'm feeling ambitious I'll put 1.4.0 on it and see if I can pull a log, but right now the car is pulled apart.

Solidarity, brother. In for win. I'd love to see this resolved. :bigtu:

There were quite a bit of code changes between 1.2.4 and 1.4.1. A lot of times it fills in values with rubbish, you should go page-by-page and make sure there's been no setting changes that would prevent a start or do something funky, or try a know good 1.4.1 map -- that will at least rule things out.

My Rev built MS3 works fine after the 4.1 update. none of my old files are any good anymore. After the update I started a new project, hooked it up to the car and saved the tune in the ecu as current.
only drawback is no older set points.

^^^that!

No worries. Sorry if I never get this figured.

I just sat here and drank coffee and hate going through the tune files. Laptop running 1.2.4 firmware and the last tune I used with a running car and the desktop running the same file on 1.4.1 I then transferred it all back to my laptop. I realized I did the changes on 1.4.1 , but opening it in 1.4.0 shows no errors. Just went and test fired it. Only thing I found wonky was the idle control wasn't turned on. Now it tries to idle, the settings are odd and it hunts around, but it does try. It will start without throttle input now. However, it still shows that is doesn't have sync even thought the trigger logs look clean like the last one posted.

If you notice it is running, but the little red sync button is all angry.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...286881e601.png

yeah idle code changed completely, so those settings wouldn't copy over.

what is your current trigger wheel now? 99-05?

i remember running into the "fake" no sync icon once, i cant remember why/when it happened.

Current trigger wheel is the 4 tooth factory one. It is the 949 damper with the 4 tooth wheel. I did not swap wheels yet cause I learned a long time ago to make as small a change as possible between tests. At least when possible.

i meant in software settings; it might have changed back to "toothed wheel"

"miata 99-00" was updated to "miata 99-05" between those firmware IIRC, i think i remember that happening to me.

Ah, I see noow. It was, and still is, set to the 99-05 option. If I recall correctly it was set that way the other day.

I just downloaded all the firmwares I could in between 1.2.3 and 1.4.1 and made new projects for each as well as loaded the tunes into each one, glanced at the error logs, and all I changed was the idle control I turned back on. A shot in the dark. I thought maybe if I go in baby steps through the levels of updates than maybe it would help. Yes I'm not software guy, but I'm at home sick and have the time. So here goes.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...22d8bf61c3.pngfrom 1.2.4 to 1.3.4 lots of errors and this is where the idle control got turned off.






https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...249c4a6372.pngfrom 1.3.4 to 1.4.0 there a was no error code going to 1.4.1 so screw adding more pics.




https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c6289df9f7.pngThe setting for the trigger wheels.

Muahaha! It raises from the dead like the cursed spawn it is to lay waste and destruction. Unless I try to fix a thing again. I never learn.

So for some reason it worked. I made a temp project for each firmware level and then loaded the tune from when it last worked. Then glanced through the menus and and out of all the iterations I only change the idle stuff. Basically rinse repeat at each option of firmware. Starting with a tune on 1.2.3 to 1.2.4 then save the tune and make a new project with the new saved 1.2.4 tune. Now adjust, save and make a new project at the next level. Bring in the tune let magic happen and re-save until you are at the level you want. Then once I made it to the desired level of Donkey Kong I connected to the ecu and made a new project and loaded my saved game from my cycle of projects earlier. For me I'm stopping tonight at 1.4.0 unless I feel better later and get frisky with 1.4.1

I have no idea why this worked. I make no claim to why. It worked and now to see what the interwebs and smarter than I peoples say.

I'm not sure I quite followed you. Sounds like you made the projects twice,
But I think you did not. So instead of jumping from 1.2.3 to 1.4.0, you stepped through each FW revision. That worked better and gave a different result than going straight from 1.2.3 to 1.4.0, and fixing the idle. Is that what you're saying.

If so... Brain and Rev, is that what we should always do?

Sorta yeah. I opened tunerstudio and made a fake new project and loaded the tune. Tunerstudio popped some error codes and I fixed the idle turned off. Then I save the tune as a new name and made a new fake project with the next up firmware named something else. Then loaded the "fixed" tune to the next level firmware. repeat until at current level tune. I will say the gauges and stuff are different on the step by step firmware then on the big step update. Once again no idea why, but I know I don't want to go from Windows 95 strait to Windows 10. Figured maybe this was similar.

good, i was thinking doing something like that would solve the issue. This should pretty much always be standard practice when changing firmwares -- i almost always start a new project, and reload the tune file once it's been saved back out at the newer firmware.

What I find odd it the dashboard didn't change with the firmware up date. I didn't know it should so I never questioned it. Notice the firmware number at the top of the pics. The location changed on the new one that worked. I'm guessing in the list of stuff that went wonky the dashboard not changing would be a hint. No if I could stop having a lung infection I'd be happy.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d89045d814.png
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...45ddd50ce1.png

One more question, if I may. I set up a new project, then loaded my last good tune into it. (from the old project, not from the MS). However, I lost my customized dashboard (as did TZ above). Is there a means to keep the previous custom dashboard?

Save the dashboard before you update

And then copy the dashboard.dash file into the new project, in addition to loading the MSQ.

^thats great. I had forgotten I could save the dashboard.

Adding to the odd stuff that changed. The launch control was cutting hte engine out. I went for a small drive yesterday and every time I wound up the motor and shifted it felt like the engine was dying when I let the clutch out. I turned off the launch control and bam it was okay again. I got home, curled under a man blanket on the couch and dug around. It seems the Vehicle Speed Sensor was turned of negating the speed cancel setting for launch. No a big deal. Just adding it to the oddities of updating for others to look for.

Fun fact. When I did the test drive weeks ago the launch control kept activating at speed gong down the road. It made the car feel like it was bogging down between shifts. SO I turned the launch control off and went on my family trip. Now I'm back and messing around trying to find what could be the culprit. It seems the VSS speed sensor was turned off. Nope, didn't solve the problem going to lunch. Sitting and staring at various menus I see that the "wheel diameter" is in meters and set to 1.9. As in bigger than I am tall sized tires. So FYI when doing the firmware update check that as well. It was late last night when I saw it and it snowed here in TN so the roads are a big sketchy for Miata purposes. (mostly other people scare me)

I'll try to keep updating as I find more oddities.

"Wheel Diameter" is in Advanced Engine--> Speed and Gear Sensors--> Look left side and down a few lines in MS 1.4.1

Wished I have seen this thread before yesterday. Went from 1.3.4 to 1.4.1 but couldn't find a matching ini and tune was signature mismatched.
Had a bunch load of errors just like OP.
Reverted to 1.3.4. Somehow found a basic tune for a 1.4.0 and the ini from Trackspeed. Copied my tune manually going every single table and settings and the ECU would still do crazy shit. I did a "compare tune" and one click copied 12 pages of mismatch. Now the car runs fine on a 1.4.0.
Problem is the I/O is different from the other ms3 ini files I have seen and going about changing them manually is not something I am comfortable with.
I swear I wouldn't touch a firmware upgarde again after yesterday.

There's an ms3.ini in every firmware zip that you can use when creating a new project for that firmware, unless I'm doing it wrong.

You are correct.

So what dictates the I/O? Only the tune itself?

IIRC, INI files have no impact on the tune. They're just definition files for TunerStudio. If you are upgrading to 1.4.1 and trying to load a 1.4.0 map, you're going to have a bad day. You should load 1.4.1, save a fresh 1.4.1 MSQ, and then copy your settings into it. Alternatively, ask your ECU manufacturer (DIY or MSLabs) for a basemap that has the I/Os already set up, and then load your fuel/spark/startup/WUE/etc maps into it.

My understanding is that it is standard procedure to load the previous FW's MSQ into the newer FW project, and then correct the errors. That seems easier, but your method seems safer.

@Braineack or @Reverant do you care to comment?

Yeah now in confused.
- even with the wheel diameter fixed launch control still engages driving down the road.

I did nothing with the .ini file. I simply loaded the next level of firmware then and old tune from the firmware before it. Let it update the tune. Then stepped to the next level of firmware and the last tune.

My current problem is the launch control thing. More importantly it got cold here since I left and drove it last time. It really kicks back now at startup and oscillates bad until it's warmed to about 80ish. I blame the firmware update, but the car wasn't running much last winter so not sure should I just make a fresh tune in the new firmware and transfer evertthing?

I k ow im whining but why so hard.
​​​

I convert all my MSQs to the firmware I'm loading them into. If I start loading newer firmwares, I make sure the older MSQs I was using have been converted over and any new features/changes in the firmware have been addresses, and the MSQs are saved back out under the newer firmware before loading them on units.

By "converting" I understand that you:
1) Create the new Project
2) Load the old MSQ into it
3) Fix errors and address changes
4) Put the new project onto the MS.

Is that correct?

When you do this, how do you get the MS to hook up with TS? When my tune in MS has a different name from the tune in TS, they won't talk. So what I have done in the past is to rename the old project to "Miata_Old" or something, and rename the new one "Miata", which matches what is on the MS. Am I doing it wrong?

Also, If there is some concern that a MS tune is somehow corrupted, does one need to somehow erase flash and do a boot load or something? Or is loading a clean tune all that is needed.

It may seem that I'm being obtuse, but FW is not my area of expertise, at all. I really need a basic explanation in simplistic terms.

TorqueZombie, if you want me out of your thread, just say so.

By converting, I start a project (usually a temporary project) with the newer firmware. Then open to MSQ i want to load. I accept the errors, then go through and make sure everything is okay -- like every single page and parameter. Then I save the file back out -- the MSQ should now be able to into controllers/projects without any errors.


That's odd, if anything there should just be a differences report that comes up and it will say controller does not match the project.

When changing the FW on a unit, I almost always start a new project, and just click "detect" when creating it. But that was before the new feature in TS to upgrade firmware...

I fail to see the point in renaming the older project. Instead, name the new project something unique and with the firmware version in it.



MS3 typically doesn't need a boot jumper to load firmware, but if it gets corrupt and you cannot communicate with it at all, or flash firmware without one, then you'll need it.




I feel like you're making this more complicated that it is.

First thing you want to do is save out your tune as a separate file, not just a "currenttune.msq" file.

D/L the firmware.

Load the firmware on your MS.

Open TS and start a new project.

click detect with the MS powered on and connected.

disconnect/de-power MS.

open tune in offline mode. accept errors, go through entire file to make sure everything is good. save tune. reload tune and confirm no more errors.

connect to MS. load tune file from project when it prompts there's a difference.

You're just fine. I'm curious how I screwed it up, or is it just colder than the car is used to and I'm in weird areas of temp I've never seen before. I think its the prior as the idle and launch control snafu is odd.

TZ,

Could you please post your final VSS settings. I have no idea what to even start with.

Thanks,

Will do when I get home. Changing the settings so far does nothing. I even set it to turn off at 3mph. Still activated launch control driving down the road. I ran VEAL for a bit and it's doing weird stuff at low Map that it didn't do before. This firmware is cursed and Rev does the have base maps for this firmware so I can't just start from scratch and transfer everything. I even tried to turn it off and on again.

If you need a Rev 1.4.0 base tune let me know.

Great news! 1.5.0 was released today. :giggle: