MS3, MS3x, for a 2002. What to buy?
 

I'm going to buy the kit and start building my MS3 on my desk here, do I need anything besides the build kit and the MS3x? I don't have a stim, so I'm guessing I should get one of those as well? I just remember there being a few extra things to buy when I did the MS1 in my '94.

Now I will go read on the megasquirt forums so I don't have to ask too many stupid questions here as I'm building it.

Holy crap, the JimStim is expensive, and there aren't any used ones on ebay. Wouldn't people sell them when they're done installing the MS in the car?

I have one, your welcome to make me an offer via PM on it.

Parts to make Joe Perez's spark circuit. (MS3x still does it wrong)

Does it? Braineack and Y8s are both running full sequential with the MS3x controlling spark and it works. My car should be working shortly on it.

No it doesn't, MS3x does it the same as uS which is the 'correct' way.

So it sounds like I only need the MS3 kit, the MS3x, and a stim?
It looks like the MS3 comes with a plug to make a wiring harness, but I can't tell if the MS3x does or not. Does anybody know? If I can find the miata plug somewhere, I will try to build the harness myself.

There is no need to do "Joe's Spark Circuit".

When you buy the MS3 kit and MS3x, they come with the DB37 connectors you need to make a harness. Talk to y8s about the mazda ECU connector, I think he has a spare.

The Input Circuit you DO need to add is this one outlined here: http://westfieldmx5.devocht.com/index.php?section=35
see Step 50.

You will also need to do the alternator control circuit outlined above.

Also very little needs actually be populated on the mainboard, so save yourself the trouble when building it and omit the circuits that are pointless. It should also be outlined on the build thread linked above.


Don't follow any other "additional/optional circuits" or the step 65.

skidude, I have an MS3+MS3X+alternator controller+A/C controller etc etc for any 01-05 ready and tested on the stim but not on the car. It would save you A LOT of trouble if you are to buy it ready and tested working instead of building it from scratch. PM me if you are interested in it.

There is a DB37 included for the main board, but the MS3X DB37 is sold separately (we figured most people would be buying the harness anyway).

Joe's spark circuit would only be of use if you were using the main board spark outputs; I see no point in doing that if you have an MS3X. The MS3X outputs go low when powered up until commanded to spark; there isn't any chance of a pop when you turn the key on.

I've burned all sorts of firmware on my MS3X and never disconnected anything...

This, I didn't notice and spent a couple days desperately searching for a db37 that I thought I saw, and assumed I would have received :)

I assume I still need a GM IAT and that open is better? That's the one I used on the last setup, and I didn't bother with a bung, I just drilled and tapped the charge pipe. Seemed to work alright, though sometimes it would act like it heat soaked when I came out from grocery shopping.

Yes, just need an open GM IAT.

How about the DB9 tuning cable? The MS3 has USB support, right? Does that mean I don't need the special tuning cable?

Stims still here, I did not hear back from you on it.

You can use a serial cable, or a USB cable. You just need one of the ones that printers use.

You should have a PM or two on it.

I've got the MS, and I've started building. I just got to step 50, and I wanted to make sure I'm reading the schematic right... all the resistors and stuff I need is already in the kit, right? This picture shows in green what would normally go there, and in gray what I'm installing, right?

And for future parts, do I need any pieces that didn't come with the kit?

Edit: The green dotted lines I need to add, I know this.

The TL082 doesn't come with the kit.. nor do many of the resistors and capacitors for Frank's circuit you linked. He does have a parts list on his site.
http://westfieldmx5.devocht.com/inde...on=35&page=102

For the NB Alternator control, you need to verify 100% that it works before installing it. This can be done with a multimeter and a variable power supply that goes from about 10-16V. It must be verified to hold the setpoint between 14.1 and 14.3 or you will either fry your ... well everything electrical... or never charge your battery.

no, not at all. maybe some spare 10Ks.

Parts will cost your $4 shipped at digikey.com

It's the stock schematic with the new components added to it, follow the text to the left, that helps put it into perspective, look at his images.

Well the above input mod parts, and all the components for the Alternator control, yes. Things like Idle control and boost control can be handled with the MS3X expander board.



Here's an MS2 I did with that circuit so you can get an idea of all the mods you need to do (Take in mind there's a lot more circuits on that board than you'll need when using the MS3X card):

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...2/DSC_0012.JPG

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...2/DSC_0010.JPG

If he wanted to go MS3, all he would have to do is remove the ms2 daughter board and replace with the MS3 and flash the firmware. He could even load his MS2 MSQ and be on his way in like ten minutes.

yes, green is what is there in the original design. Gray is what you'll be installing instead.

I just got to the step 80, does that count as an additional/optional circuit?

Wow, I'm also intimidated by the alternator circuit. That seems like a lot of crap to fit in the proto area, not to mention I don't know how I'll fit 3 wires into those holes.

The alternator circuit needs a variable power supply to verify that it works right.

I built mine on a small piggyback board.

I'm in the same boat on not sure what all I need. Only I have a 91, is there anything else besides buying the MS3 and MS3X unassembled kit? I'm just :confused:

Any idea where I can get an MS3 base map for an 02? I'm still working with the stim but I'm having trouble getting it to sync or show anything, but it doesn't have any kind of map I don't think.

What tach input circuit did you build?

I built the one outlined in step 50 of that westfieldmx5 set of instructions.

download the diypnp 99-00 map. that'll get you started.

Well, I loaded that map, and I get 158 errors, the rpm shows 65043 and it still doesn't sync. I feel like such a noob, my MS1 worked perfectly the first time I plugged it in when I built that one.

Here is y8s msq for his 01. Should help with getting your 02 running.

That map works, though none of the other pots seem to do anything. I'm reading up on the JimStim now though.

do you have the jumpers and switches setup correctly?

jumpers and switches on the JimStim? I think so, but I guess I don't really know where they're supposed to be. I know the switches are right, and I know the O2 is set on narrow band, but besides that I don't know. the pin labelled "2nd trigger" is jumped to the pin labelled "I1A (25)"

The three-pin row labelled "Primary tach" has the left two jumpered, and the two right next to it appear to both be jumped to the 5V pull up. That looks like it for jumpers.

you need to do this:

http://www.jbperf.com/JimStim/JimSti...ers_square.JPG

shouldn't need any pull up jumpers.

and also this:

http://www.jbperf.com/JimStim/JimSti...itches_25s.bmp

2nd trigger jumper should stay where it is.



It'll never sync if the rpm shows 65043. You must first clear the conflict error.

Cleared the conflict error last night, so now rpm works. I will remove the pull up jumpers after work today and report back on the other pots.

Randomly mine doesn't work unless I have pullup jumpers in place.

Works fine on the car (and has done for years).

So don't discount needing the pullups.

The MS2 proto area is a bit different than the one on the DIYPNP, but maybe my layout can give some fresh ideas (if needed). It works (but I had a variable power supply and a bread board to verify everything before I started cramming everything into the proto area).
http://homepage.mac.com/niklasfalk/i...or_Control.png

Finally someone posts a diagram that makes logical sense to me.

Frank's screwed me up because he didn't put part outlines and it confused me.

Oh and not ALL of the resistors need to be 1%. Just the two that set the ratio for the set point.

Finally? That diagram/post is from last June :)

It's part of the creative MS-community, no-one "owns" a complete and comprehensive view of the best method for every specific moment (new stuff gets tested/developed all the time). It doesn't help when old instructions don't get corrected/updated/improved.

The MS3 situation currently is almost comic (or I'm extremely spoiled with the DIYPNP). DIYPNP+VVTuner seems (to me) to be an easier route than an MS3 currently (even if i were to start from scratch).

It doesn't hurt anything and my source did not have 5% resistors available (and the difference is just couple of cents).
But, sure you can manage with 5-10% on the other ones if that's whats available.
If I have to order even just some parts, the shipping/handling makes it worthwhile to get it all, or even a couple of sets of components).

MS3 is easy, pull the MS2 daughterboard, plug in MS3...done. There's really nothing to MS3 that's really any different from MS2...as far as hardware is concerned.

VVT PID is done in MS3 as well.

Cool guys like me or y8s have just failed to document it. We wanna be exclusive.


I spent like $6 shipped on the components from digikey.com, and that was for (3) circuits worth.

Still nothing on the other sensors. I pulled the jumpers and the temps both sit right on 115 degrees. O2 doesn't move, and the TPS value is always at 325. The only thing working is the RPMs.

did you calibrate your AFR and thermistors and load a map?

I loaded a map, but I didn't calibrate the AFR or thermistors... I'm not remembering that part.

Go to Tools and Calibrate: TPS, Thermistors, and AFR.

Ok, calibrated the thermistors and O2 and still nothing.

I'm planning to install this MS tomorrow, does this sound like a problem with the stim, or a hardware problem, or a software problem? I'm using the map posted above, and I can post pictures of my board if that would help. I just don't know where to start here.

probably an issue with the stim...the pots are just variable resistors that change the voltage output back to the MS.

so should I just trust that it works and install it? That makes me nervous because once I start installing it I can't turn back, and I can't leave the car where I work on it overnight.

since the harness is pluggable, you can install to test without mounting the MS and just uninstall it and plug the stock ecu back in.

Well, I just went to start building my alternator circuit, but it looks like I accidentally bought a TL431AIP instead of a TL431. The thing I ended up with is "IC ADJ SHUNT REGULATOR 8-DIP" I went back to the digikey website and I can't figure out what I actually need. I suppose the thing I have won't work, so I guess I don't get to start squirting tomorrow. Can anybody help me with what part I do actually need?

the TL431AIP might just be a different form factor. like Inline Pin for example.

If the original "D" shaped package pins are 1. Ref, 2. Anode, 3. Cathode

the DIP would be 1. Cathode, 6. Anode, 8. Ref.

Other than size and shape, it looks like the same functionality.

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/TL/TL431A.pdf

The gray vertical lines in this are connections, right?

Edit: nevermind, stupid question... I didn't wait long enough after I woke up to post.

Where can I get the +12V for this alternator circuit? I remember reading somewhere, but I can't remember.

I took it from one of the 12V pullup, but you could pick it from anywhere (there might be places with less stable 12V on the board, but I don't know).

i'm gonna throw out the warning again to test the alternator circuit before using it in the car.

It's easy to make mistakes when you cram things into the proto area (having components/leads crossing each other etc).
Verifying the function is vise.