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Old 11-16-2010, 10:53 AM   #1
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Default MS3 na cas sync problem?

Been trying to get this to work for a week now... so I'm deferring, I have what seems to be the beginnings of the correct signals, but it looks incorrect. I'm running ms3/ms3x using the abeFM circuit for the crank and the simple pull up for cam (was running it through the abeFM circuit, but changed it because I wasn't getting much of anything for a long time)
(also of note, I'm not running the tiny caps on the abefm circuit, i was under the impression that they weren't strictly required)

Anyway, here's my composite log...
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MS3 na cas sync problem?-compositelogms3.jpg  
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:03 AM   #2
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Change rising edge to falling edge.

You're welcome.
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:09 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Change rising edge to falling edge.

You're welcome.
Nice try, its set for falling edge. Here's my msq so everyone can have a good laugh.
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File Type: msq CurrentTune.msq (130.0 KB, 64 views)
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:15 AM   #4
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Did you capture the log using a JimStim or off the car?

Are you using JS10 or the MS3X cam input (pin 32)? I recommend the MS3X input.
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:18 AM   #5
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Thats from the car... I know, it looks like the wrong pattern. I wish I had a jim stim.
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:22 AM   #6
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wait, you're using the abeFM input circuit for a CAS input and not 99-00 crank/cam sensors???
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:26 AM   #7
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Yes... want to eventually run the trackspeed wheel, already have the sensor... Its all Hall 5v logic stuff, abeFM circuit should work fine (even good) w/ the cas.
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:36 AM   #8
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well, try rising edge...

it looks like it's getting the correct signals. 4-2.
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:05 PM   #9
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I'll give that a whirl this evening. May go ahead and pick up a couple caps over lunch too.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:20 AM   #10
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Put it back to both inputs using the abefm circuit, added the caps (they're ghetto radioshack ceramic caps w/ the crappy temp rating sadly) And the composite log looks much better.... but I'm pretty sure I've nuked the factory coils (messing around w/ settings while trouble shooting, going high (inverted) for ms3x coils ppl) COP harness is almost done though... so hopefully tomorrow evening I can get the damn bottom bolt out of the coil bracket, it wiggles but won't come out. ugh.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:57 AM   #11
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Ugh, looks like sync is still my problem... got the cops in, no dice, cranks and doesn't try to do anything, thought 'well, can't hear the fuel pump, so I'll put the oe ecu back in and see if I can hear it that way'... couldn't hear it, and amazingly the thing started right up w/ big ol rx8 injectors. Its weird that it doesn't even cough or anything because it gets sync and loses it, it should squirt and spark with any amount of sync right?
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Old 11-20-2010, 03:01 PM   #12
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switched to rising edge and sync is perfect... but i'm not getting any spark, i'm set to going high (inverted) ms3x outputs, using spark A (1+4) and spark B (2+3) (cops work perfect oe ecu) .... what could I possibly be missing? I've just double checked the harness for the 15th time... ms3x bad?
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Old 11-20-2010, 05:26 PM   #13
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use the output test mode and check for spark on each output.

if you cant hear the fuel pump...what are you using to turn it on? what model year?
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:02 PM   #14
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i tried that on both outputs and we never saw anything vs the oe ecu which we def. saw spark on. just tested the idle valve which is on the ms3x and it buzzed at 50hz... so itsnot the whole board, we even beeped my ms harness just in case. it is going high (inverted) for the coil signal right?

msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=38381&p=266533#p266533
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:27 AM   #15
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yes should be inverted. you put the ribbons in correctly? You have your spark outputs connected to pin 14 and 33 on the MS3X db37?
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Old 11-22-2010, 10:38 AM   #16
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When I get home today I'm going to quadruple check the harness and probably get some pictures to send to diyautotune. jmscortina tested my msq on his bench and got spark. I ended up buying a new tv from BB yesterday instead of messing w/ the car any... needed a break
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Old 11-22-2010, 11:05 AM   #17
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You have the spark output set to MS3X, right?
If so, try "wasted COP" instead of "wasted spark" and use spark outputs C and D instead of A and B.

What coils are you using, and what does your dwell look like?

The final thing I could think of would be the ribbon cable. Continuity test the big ribbon cable if nothing else pans out. Those ribbon cables are machine assembled, not hand assembled, so I don't think there's a problem there, but ya never know...
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Old 11-22-2010, 12:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
You have the spark output set to MS3X, right?
If so, try "wasted COP" instead of "wasted spark" and use spark outputs C and D instead of A and B.

What coils are you using, and what does your dwell look like?

The final thing I could think of would be the ribbon cable. Continuity test the big ribbon cable if nothing else pans out. Those ribbon cables are machine assembled, not hand assembled, so I don't think there's a problem there, but ya never know...
Coils are toyota COPs, dwell is set to 2.5 ms @ 12v, 3 for cranking. I'll try the other spark outputs this evening. I was thinking there was probably a way to get it to use different spark outs. I was thinking wasted COP would be firing A+B and then C+D, it makes more sense for it to be doing A+D and B+C together though.

I really appreciate all the help.
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Old 11-22-2010, 01:10 PM   #19
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That's not enough dwell for cranking. Turn it up. 6 ms might be more reasonable. Do this first, before moving on to re-wiring things. Insufficient dwell could be your real problem.

Otherwise, I'm asking you to try spark outputs C and D just for output test mode, to see if you get spark. I was assuming you were running a wasted spark set up. For that matter, there's no reason why you can't wire it up sequentially.
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
That's not enough dwell for cranking. Turn it up. 6 ms might be more reasonable. Do this first, before moving on to re-wiring things. Insufficient dwell could be your real problem.

Otherwise, I'm asking you to try spark outputs C and D just for output test mode, to see if you get spark. I was assuming you were running a wasted spark set up. For that matter, there's no reason why you can't wire it up sequentially.
I'll do that, its wasted spark... Not going sequential because I don't want to run more wires and there really isn't a whole lot to be gained.
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