MS3 no start, have spark, fuel, not sure about timing - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-26-2012, 07:42 PM   #1
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Default MS3 no start, have spark, fuel, not sure about timing

I still have not got a start or idle on my MS3/3x install. This install has been full of fail Just verified spark and injectors today. Spark is good, no wiring errors. InjC was not working. Turned out to be a bad pin in the MS3X harness side connector.

Like Yetidragon, I have both a 60-2 wheel and a CAS (magnetic) with the bigger lobe cut off from the inner wheel which is the SGC signal. I guess it is 180 out?

I want to reconfirm the physical timing. It looks like the timing pickup is either 66 deg or 78 deg BTDC (11 or 13 teeth). I think it is 78 deg. What do you use for rotating the crank (by hand)? I have pulled the plugs. I have clearance issues for the crank bolt, the front sway is preventing access. Do you have to drop the sway bar for access to the crank bolt on a 94 or is there another trick?

Once I have crank timing confirmed then do I add 360 deg to the Tooth #1 Angle setting? (Because of the 180 out on the CAM SGC signal?) So if the physical timing for the crank was 78 deg then Tooth #1 Angle would be 78+360=438 degrees?

After conversion to MS3, this sucker has never started from day 1. I must be missing something big, but d**n I can't figure it out. Freaking car is frustrating the h#ll out of me. I just want to drive it again.

Any help or insight greatly appreciated
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:51 PM   #2
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There is spark during testmode, but not during crank. What would cause that?
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:53 AM   #3
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bad crank/cam signal input.

use the composite logger and see if you're getting a good sync during cranking. if not, you'll see what signals are not reading correctly.

you should also follow this up with your msq, datalog of cranking (10-15sec), and composite log of cranking, attached to your next post.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:48 PM   #4
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Default It kind of runs - a little

Necro, sorry.

Issue was wrong edge for CAM signal, doh. The signal was too close to TDC so MS3 was firing in wrong cycle (360 out)

OK, it runs a few seconds before it dies. If one gives it gas - it dies.
Got some logs, plus msq.

I'd like to get this car to move under its own power. Freaking rotors are bright orange with thick rust.

Can someone help interpret what to change so I can get a stable idle? I'm not quite sure how to interpret the logs yet.

Thanks
Attached Files
File Type: msq 2012-10-21_12.32.10.msq (160.5 KB, 77 views)
File Type: csv 2012-10-21_12.21.13comp.csv (115.0 KB, 94 views)
File Type: csv 2012-10-21_12.22.03sync.csv (69.2 KB, 98 views)
File Type: csv 2012-10-21_12.23.22tooth.csv (5.3 KB, 91 views)
File Type: msl 2012-10-21_12.05.01.msl (121.8 KB, 96 views)
File Type: msl 2012-10-21_12.25.46.msl (142.4 KB, 95 views)
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:49 PM   #5
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Anyone? Do I need to start a new thread?
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:01 AM   #6
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you have: 1 squirts per engine cycle, should be 2.

plus you have 3.1 as req_fuel, do you have like 1000cc injectors?
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
you have: 1 squirts per engine cycle, should be 2.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if 1 or 2. I'll fix that. What happens if it is 1?

plus you have 3.1 as req_fuel, do you have like 1000cc injectors?
I've got ID1000 injectors.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:11 PM   #8
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well try 2 squirts and see what happens and make sure the deadtime curve is correcyt
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:18 PM   #9
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I hope the dead time is OK. Started a thread on how to calc dead time about a year ago... The dead time in my ms3 is based on that thread.

Out to try 2 squirts.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:47 PM   #10
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Default Seems like not enough fuel

Tried 2 squirts. No difference really.

Looks very lean. Not sure why yet.

Dead time? Non-linear behavior for small PW?
Attached Files
File Type: msl 2012-10-25_17.37.12.msl (210.8 KB, 95 views)
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:04 PM   #11
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Default Can't seem to get to idle

Put in all recommended changes. No joy.

TS doesn't seem to retain the WBO2 selection in the CalibrateAFR menu, is that a problem? Also the names in the dialog box don't really match up with the *.inc files.

Here are the latest msq and datalog.

At one point the engine nearly quits (350 rpm and 13.5:1) and then runs for a bit, but the AFR is very high - at 790 rpm ~ 20:1, where it dies.

Don't know what to do next.

I appreciate all the help received to date. It just have to be something dumb, but I don't know what it is.
Attached Files
File Type: msq SlowRider2012-10-27_15.34.51.msq (160.5 KB, 61 views)
File Type: msl SlowRider2012-10-27_15.29.15.msl (113.1 KB, 88 views)
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:06 PM   #12
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TunerStudio's AFR table calibration is one way, so it won't retain the info. That's normal.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:29 PM   #13
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the car is dying due to your horrible idle control. you're letting the idle valve close and, lo and behold, the car quits.


turn on closed loop idle control, and tune!
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:42 PM   #14
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Hmm, thought I turned off idle control. (Was trying to reduce the variable space.)

Are the defaults ok for closed loop idle control on a miata?

Since I've been able to bugger up lots of stuff so far - what is the recommended way to control the stock iac with a ms3/3x? Maybe I hooked it up wrong.

Not like I'm going out right now. Wind has really picked up, Sandy is getting more serious here...
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:52 PM   #15
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you're on warmup only and you let the idle valve pretty much close.

I can post my settings in a bit.
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:53 PM   #16
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Thanks

Last edited by SlowRider; 10-29-2012 at 05:06 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:18 PM   #17
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here's all my idle settings, enjoy the huge picture:


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MS3 no start, have spark, fuel, not sure about timing-idle_settings.jpg  
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:03 PM   #18
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What is the y-axis on closed loop idle initial values? C or F or ?

Do I need to convert these values to C? I use C for MS.

Last edited by SlowRider; 10-29-2012 at 06:29 PM. Reason: Clarification.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowRider View Post
What is the y-axis on closed loop idle initial values? C or F or ?

Do I need to convert these values to C? I use C for MS.
Bump. Brain, in your settings, is the y axis C or F ?
Thanks.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowRider View Post
Bump. Brain, in your settings, is the y axis C or F ?
Thanks.
I'd assume F, since you'd want a higher idle when the engine is cold (50F or below), gradually decreasing until the engine is at 160F+. That's my guess/assumption at least, based on normal warmed-up engine operating temps of 180-215F.
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