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Old 04-14-2010, 08:28 PM   #1
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Default MSII DIYPNP No start Help!

I have read all the threads on no start and none of them seem to pertain to the problem I am having. I just installed my built MSII and I got through setting up the sensors but when I tried to start the car it just turns over. I have checked for spark and fuel and I don't think I have either. The MS isn't showing any rpm, p/w or duty cycle activity. The car will start with the oem ecu in place, although it has no maf and 550s so it doesn't run long. My guess is that it isn't getting an rpm signal so nothing else will work, but why? is there some ignition setting I am missing, I just have what ever was loaded on it when I got it. Any help would be awesome, the setup is 2000, 550s, walboro 255 and maf delete. I am a total newb, so if I have left out any important information just yell at me and I will add it. Also, on the ts default gauges at the bottom, during cranking, it says "not cranking".
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File Type: msq 2010-04-13_21.49.17.msq (74.0 KB, 86 views)
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:54 AM   #2
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The lack of RPM is the key here. Try taking a composite log of the crankshaft position and camshaft position sensors - see if you're not reading one of them.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:01 AM   #3
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You could also pop the cover and confirm that OPTO IN- goes to 3J and VR2+ goes to 3H I can't quite tell, I got the angle wrong on my super HR images I took of the unit before I sent it out:

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...1/DSC_0413.JPG

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...1/DSC_0415.JPG
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:43 PM   #4
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Okay, I checked the wiring inside the MS and it looks fine to me, I mean it was where you said it should be.

I tried to upload a log file but it said it was an invalid file. It is a .csv file is this right?

It does show a signal for both sensors, but I am not sure what gaps or spikes I am looking for.

lol how about a screen shot.
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Last edited by K20 Mini; 04-15-2010 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 04-16-2010, 10:17 AM   #5
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Looks like you don't have a cam signal.

Composite log should show:

Top graph--Green (not existing in your log), Cam signal
Middle--Blue, Crank signal
Bottom--Red, Error signal. Should be horizontal. Instead it's showing teeth that were read but were not expected, since you have crank signal but not cam signal.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:54 PM   #6
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I didn't know there where supposed to be three graphs, the information I found only showed examples of two. It didn't say any thing about an error graph, is it just showing the crank graph again?

So if everything from the cam sensor to the ecu plug is working properly (hypothetically, cause thats the easy part) is there some setting in the MS that may not be right?
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:56 PM   #7
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Okay, I confirmed that it is in the MS. I have even tried my MS in other stock miata's and all the logs are the same as the one I posted before. I have checked all the settings I can think to. I have checked everything loaded into mine against the start-up maps on DIY's website and everything looks the same, to me at least. I am obviously missing something.
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:23 AM   #8
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Open up the 99-00 application guide and triple check the VR2 wiring and pull up. If verified correct, reflow the solder to ensure a good connection.

Do you have a scope? If so, we can see how far the cam signal goes.
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Old 04-17-2010, 06:01 PM   #9
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I don't have a scope. I am not so sure I am qualified to go behind Braineack and resolder inside the MS. I haven't attempted circuit building before and I sort of want this thing to work when I get done. I think I should let him look it over and hope that it is some simple thing I have overlooked. Thanks for the info though.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:27 PM   #10
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Ben, were there revisions to the DIYPNP board? that one looks different than the three I've held...
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:52 PM   #11
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Yes, Matt revised the design and added a bunch more features. The relay circuits were improved and now there's 3 instead of two, plus we added a nitrous circuit, a varistor for altcam, and an LM1815 based VR conditioner. Of note, there's now a high side driver circuit that can be useful for certain applications, such as say, 90-93 fuel pump activation. Basically, there's a bunch more features, and the retail cost went up exactly $0.00.
We did have to pull one of the proto areas to make room for this new stuff, but I don't see that being an issue. I don't think people were even coming close to using half of the proto area that was there--and those that were using proto area generally were building circuits that are now standard.
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Old 04-24-2010, 05:03 PM   #12
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So back on topic...

I got K20 mini's unit back and hooked up my jimstim to output the signals on 3J and 3H. This is what I'm getting on the composite logger:


All the jumpers and pullup appear to be correct, could it be something with the voltage regulator circuit? I have 12v going into it and when I test the output to 1O it's only 6v.


I was hooking it up wrong here, ignore this.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:27 PM   #13
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I don't see how the voltage regulation circuit could have anything to do with the CKP/CMP. You don't get RPM in TS, right?

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Old 04-24-2010, 08:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
I don't see how the voltage regulation circuit could have anything to do with the CKP/CMP. You don't get RPM in TS, right?

Dimitris

the only things going into the DIYPNP box are power and the CKP/CMP signals. It appears to be taking them from my jimstim...


miata140, I'm going to move your posts to a new thread, thanks.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:35 AM   #15
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What CPU version is in your JimStim? Do you have a scope?

Dimitris
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Old 04-25-2010, 04:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post

So, just for my future reference, that is the pattern it is supposed to have? Or no?
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:12 AM   #17
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There shouldn't be all those red lines, which means it's seeing teeth it wasn't expecting to see. I'm not even sure I setup my stim correctly to output 99-00 trigger wheel settings, I also could of had the CMP/CKP outputs reversed when I was testing it. I'm going to dive more into it tonight, but what I don't understand right now is why you never saw the cam signal at all...I havn't touched a thing yet and when I output to the pins the cam and crank sensors come in on, I'm at least getting some sort of reading in the MS.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:21 AM   #18
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Your composite log has funny windows. Doesn't look like the stim was in 99-00 Miata output mode to me.

This is the 99-00 Miata wheel mode output:



Since the DIYPNP input mods are the same, if doubt exists you can always check it in 4G63 mode just like an NA by setting up the stim and .msq appropriately.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:40 PM   #19
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Any luck with it?
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:00 PM   #20
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Turns out it was how I was outputting. I wasn't powering the DIYPNP from the stim. I had to separate power sources, which turns out you cannot do.

Once I hooked it back up correctly (outputting CMP,CKP, 12v, 5v, & GND) it synced up right away.




so now I'm unsure as to why it didn't run on your car, as the unit appears to be in working order. Did you remove the AFM? Both sensors get their ground through the MAF it seems. But I cannot determine if it's just through the plug back to ground or if two pins in the connector need to be jumped.
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