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Old 06-02-2007, 11:16 PM   #1
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Question mspnp 550cc w/out afm,wont start

i install my pnp on 92 miata stock and no problem starting,when eliminate my afm and install my new 550cc injector car wont start,i change req fuel and automatically set to 5.1 on req fuel,is this correct or not pls help,and what should i put on injector opening time (ms).? injector staging? batt voltage (ms/v)?
pwm current limit(%)? pwm time threshold(ms)??fast idle threshold?? pls help.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:19 PM   #2
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did you use the PNP no-AFM map?

should be:

REQ 4.9

then

1.0
.10
100%
25.4

80
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
did you use the PNP map?
yes i did,w/out afm.the req fuel on pnp map is 13.4 car wont start on those too.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:25 PM   #4
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change the req fuel first, to 4.9
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
did you use the PNP no-AFM map?

should be:

REQ 4.9

then

1.0
.10
100%
25.4

80
still no start at thi set up.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:47 PM   #6
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Is your engine flooded? Pull a plug and check.

Is your wiring modified in any way? Your sig shows you had an emanage at one point.

Connect your laptop and watch the gauges in megatune.
Look for manifold air temp, rpm, injector pulsewidth, etc.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:52 PM   #7
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did you install an intake air temperature sensor when you removed the afm?
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:18 AM   #8
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throw the stock injectors in, then make sure the iat is working. Add new **** one part at a time for sanity.
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:29 AM   #9
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check to see if the FP is comming on
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
did you install an intake air temperature sensor when you removed the afm?
^^^ my money is on this...
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:26 PM   #11
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read the manual
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Old 06-03-2007, 04:25 PM   #12
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Not that I know anything about the AFM, but doesn't it also trigger the fuel pump on as well? WAG on my part.
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Old 06-03-2007, 04:26 PM   #13
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I'm sure the MSPNP is already wired to overcome this problem from the start, afm or not.
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Old 06-03-2007, 04:27 PM   #14
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Oh yeah, my bad i forget about all this MSPNP ****. Sawri
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Old 06-03-2007, 04:46 PM   #15
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still did he connect to the FP relay or is that internal or hell is the pump comming on jumper the FP in the Diagnostic box and see if that helps.
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Old 06-03-2007, 05:35 PM   #16
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Do you smell fuel coming out from the exhaust?

Jim
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Old 06-03-2007, 07:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Hounos View Post
read the manual
I'm thinking this far too often when reading posts on here at the moment...
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Old 06-03-2007, 08:10 PM   #18
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Is the car is a nice quiet place? With the key in the off position, turn it to the ON position but not all the way to start, you should hear the fuel pump come on for two seconds, and then you'll hear it turn off. Usually you can hear the click of the relay as it turns on and off. You can do this again and again (if you have trouble hearing it the first time) to make sure the fuel pump is working... That's the first step.

With the AFM in place the fuel pump relay will get jumpered on by the AFM regardless of what the MSPNP tells it to do. With the AFM removed it relies on the MSPNP to prime the pump and then to activate it when you crank it. It's possible if a step was skipped in the install that it may not be commanding the FP to activate once you remove the AFM.

Did you try it with the AFM removed before you swapped in the 550's? That would have been ideal so you'd know if the problem was the AFM removal or the larger injectors. If it's the injectors it's just a tuning thing...

You mentioned you changed your REQ_FUEL... that's only part of what you need to change for larger injectors. It's important, but only after you get it running. If you didn't change your cranking pulsewidths you'll never get it to start in the first place with injectors that much larger than stock. It will flood in an instant. Also you'll need to change your AE PW's. All of this is covered in the manual.

Check this stuff out and let me know if I can assist!
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Old 06-04-2007, 05:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
Is the car is a nice quiet place? With the key in the off position, turn it to the ON position but not all the way to start, you should hear the fuel pump come on for two seconds, and then you'll hear it turn off. Usually you can hear the click of the relay as it turns on and off. You can do this again and again (if you have trouble hearing it the first time) to make sure the fuel pump is working... That's the first step.

With the AFM in place the fuel pump relay will get jumpered on by the AFM regardless of what the MSPNP tells it to do. With the AFM removed it relies on the MSPNP to prime the pump and then to activate it when you crank it. It's possible if a step was skipped in the install that it may not be commanding the FP to activate once you remove the AFM.

Did you try it with the AFM removed before you swapped in the 550's? That would have been ideal so you'd know if the problem was the AFM removal or the larger injectors. If it's the injectors it's just a tuning thing...

You mentioned you changed your REQ_FUEL... that's only part of what you need to change for larger injectors. It's important, but only after you get it running. If you didn't change your cranking pulsewidths you'll never get it to start in the first place with injectors that much larger than stock. It will flood in an instant. Also you'll need to change your AE PW's. All of this is covered in the manual.

Check this stuff out and let me know if I can assist!
(flodded)whew,it works now w/stock map w/out afm,req fuel to 4.9 and now whats next.car kinda run or idle rich,what do you think just bring do dyno tune or which part that dyno tune touch when i bring my car there?

Last edited by castillejos2000; 06-04-2007 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:32 PM   #20
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Have you adjusted your cranking pulsewidths and accell enrichments to get them close based on the new injectors? I'd do this first, and it is covered in the manual.

Then disable EGO Correction before you tune: BASIC SETTINGS: EXHAUST GAS SETTINGS (Set Controller Step Size to 0). After tuning set it back to 1.

Also disable Accelleration Enrichment: BASIC SETTINGS: ACCELERATION WIZARD (Set MAPDot Threshold to 500 or something really high). After tuning set it back to 50.

Have a qualified tuner dial it in on a steady state dyno. Loading it into each cell and tuning fuel first, and then doing the same tuning ignition, finally tuning higher throttle doing ramp runs on up to WOT ramp runs. That's my preferred method anyways, your mileage may vary. After dyno tuning you can re-enable EGO correction and Accelleration Enrichments and fine tune the Accell Enrichments if they need it. Cranking PW, Warmup Enrichments, and AfterStart Enrichments could need fine tuning as well though they are probably close enough to serve you pretty well without adjustment.

Lastly is cruise tuning, which they may have been able to hit on the dyno or may not have been able to. It's sometimes easier to do while actually cruising with the actual load you'll have on the car in a real life cruise situation. You'll be looking for good gas mileage and driveability here.
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