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Old 12-22-2007, 02:14 PM   #1
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Default Is my car's ECU fried?

I'm starting to get a grip of what happened with my MS install. I went back to the shop this morning, retraced our steps and this was the info we analyzed:

When we first installed the MS, it would only turn on 1 red light out of the 3 but the car fired up but could not keep idling. After trying to start it a few times, Cristian (he is the tuner), at my suggestion, opened the Easytherm file and somehow we flashed the 29v file to the MS eprom. We think this info then passed on the car's ECU and this is were we started having problems.

The way I see it I now have an MS in perfect working order and an ailing ECU.

I need some assistance from Matt Cramer or Foundsoul in the spirit of Christmas

We already went out locally to see if we could find an ECU for my car. I already checked FM's website and they have used ones for sale but I would rather not buy it. Cristian is going to take my car's ECU to a friend of his to see if they can reflash it.

More info for Matt and Foundsoul:we already checked the car's coils and CAS and there is nothing wrong with them but when we check the voltage we only get a pulse from the fuel pump (which by the way we changed to a Walbro 190lph after the "event") but get no pulse at the sparkplugs or the Fuel injectors.

Please help.

Rafa
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Old 12-22-2007, 03:19 PM   #2
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Wait- are you asking whether during the process of flashing new firmware into your MS you might have accidentally corrupted the firmware in the ECU? Absolutely no way that's possible.

(yes, only two days into my vacation and I'm already breaking my internet embargo)
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Old 12-22-2007, 03:43 PM   #3
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Wait- are you asking whether during the process of flashing new firmware into your MS you might have accidentally corrupted the firmware in the ECU? Absolutely no way that's possible.

(yes, only two days into my vacation and I'm already breaking my internet embargo)
Joe I appreciate you making the effort. Hope your vacation is going well. What I'm asking is whether the corrupted firmware that was on the MS somehow corrupted the ECU. Because if not, then I don't have a clue of what's happening. We completely disconnected the MS and tried to fire up the car with the ECU and could only get pulse to the fuel pump and no spark whatsoever. Bear in mind the MS was disconnected.

Let me ask this: since my MS is working and I'm now facing issues with the car's ECU; how complicated would it be to use the MS as Standalone even if I have to sacrifice the use of the A/C? Any input?
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Old 12-22-2007, 04:05 PM   #4
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I too am breaking my internet embargo while on vacation.
Sorry for the late response. Your stock ECU should be fine, there is no way you messed up the actual firmware on the ECU while flashing MS.
You won't be able to use that MS as standalone though. It doesn't have the idle mod or the fan mod completed so you won't be able to idle the car and your fans will never turn on unless you wire them on all the time.
I know the MS is good, i started and drove my own car on it for a period of time before it shipped out. So that option can be ruled out.
There are only so many things it can be. You said only one red light of three came on when starting the car. The two outer LEDs are for ignition and the middle one is for warmup. So when the car is warming up the center one will be lit. The outer two will be constantly lit when you turn the key on.
Try this for me rafa. Leave the MS connected, unplug your coils, then turn the MS on and tell us if both of the outer LEDs are on or off.
I was troubleshooting someone elses MS and one of their ignition circuits was messed up. When i would turn the key on with the coils connected D14 (LED closest to DB9) would lag behind D16 by about a second, then it would light up. When starting the car the car would run on two cylinders because the D14 circuit wasn't firing the coil.
When i disconnected my coils and turned the key on both LEDs lit up at exactly the same time.
If you have a coil that is hay wire or now two coils that are haywire maybe the LEDs will show some sign of that. You say even the stock ECU won't run the car anymore. That tells me that something else is wrong and i'm 90% sure it shouldn't be your stock ECU. Megasquirt should still start the car i believe with no stock ECU plugged in, it just won't control the idle valve, so it won't idle very well and your fans won't kick on when it reaches temp.
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Old 12-22-2007, 04:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by cjernigan View Post
I too am breaking my internet embargo while on vacation.
Sorry for the late response. Your stock ECU should be fine, there is no way you messed up the actual firmware on the ECU while flashing MS.
You won't be able to use that MS as standalone though. It doesn't have the idle mod or the fan mod completed so you won't be able to idle the car and your fans will never turn on unless you wire them on all the time.
I know the MS is good, i started and drove my own car on it for a period of time before it shipped out. So that option can be ruled out.
There are only so many things it can be. You said only one red light of three came on when starting the car. The two outer LEDs are for ignition and the middle one is for warmup. So when the car is warming up the center one will be lit. The outer two will be constantly lit when you turn the key on.
Try this for me rafa. Leave the MS connected, unplug your coils, then turn the MS on and tell us if both of the outer LEDs are on or off.
I was troubleshooting someone elses MS and one of their ignition circuits was messed up. When i would turn the key on with the coils connected D14 (LED closest to DB9) would lag behind D16 by about a second, then it would light up. When starting the car the car would run on two cylinders because the D14 circuit wasn't firing the coil.
When i disconnected my coils and turned the key on both LEDs lit up at exactly the same time.
If you have a coil that is hay wire or now two coils that are haywire maybe the LEDs will show some sign of that. You say even the stock ECU won't run the car anymore. That tells me that something else is wrong and i'm 90% sure it shouldn't be your stock ECU. Megasquirt should still start the car i believe with no stock ECU plugged in, it just won't control the idle valve, so it won't idle very well and your fans won't kick on when it reaches temp.
Thanks Chad; before I go back to the shop let me tell you what I can see. Both the outer lights are turning on in the MS which was not the case the first time around. I'm positive it's not the MS.

For clarification purposes; you say if I connect the MS with no stock ECU plugged in the car should fire up? If so, I'd like to try that.

BTW. I'm also thinking about another thing. Could this be a grounding issue? Remember, I said they had to lift the car's engine again to take out the oil pan and put it back in because it was leaking. If it's a grounding issue; what should I look for?

I'm very sorry.

Rafa

p.s. I'll take my camera with me. Any specific pics?
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Old 12-22-2007, 04:24 PM   #6
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There are a few grounding places on the engine.

The stock ECU grounds on the intake manifold, that is part of the wiring harness for the injectors and all that. It's one big bundle.

There is a braided strap that goes from the block to the chassis on the driver side near the firewall. It is also very important.

There is another grounding place on the PPF, which is the brace that holds the transmission and diffrential together. The battery grounds on the PPF.

Then inside the trunk there should be a grounding point right near the batter on the chassis. Clean and verify all of those connections. There might be a few more i don't know about as well. Grounding is one of the most important things with MS.
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Old 12-22-2007, 04:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjernigan View Post
There are a few grounding places on the engine.

The stock ECU grounds on the intake manifold, that is part of the wiring harness for the injectors and all that. It's one big bundle.

There is a braided strap that goes from the block to the chassis on the driver side near the firewall. It is also very important.

There is another grounding place on the PPF, which is the brace that holds the transmission and diffrential together. The battery grounds on the PPF.

Then inside the trunk there should be a grounding point right near the batter on the chassis. Clean and verify all of those connections. There might be a few more i don't know about as well. Grounding is one of the most important things with MS.
Thanks Chad. I get the impression you just may have given me the answer I was looking for. I had forgotten to mention this: When they lifted the engine to fix the oil case they also fixed the (I don't know what is called) water tap? in the back of the engine because it had a loose bolt and was also leaking water. If there are any grounds around there I could find some issues there. I remember the mechanic using a piece of a mirror to see because the space was too tight.

Thanks
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Old 12-25-2007, 10:35 AM   #8
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This being Christmas day I don't expect any suggestions but I figured I presented some readings for tomorrow on.

We got a tester and went down to check different engine connections. At the plug going into the coils it read: 10.1 K-ohms; which, according to the "Automotive Repair Manual for 1990 thru 1997 models" we're using as a reference is within the 8.7 to 12.9 k-ohms it gives as parameters. We figure the coils are the ones that are fried. (the orange plug on the first attached pics) btw, no I did not have anything to drink last night!

We also took a visual look at the Crank Angle Sensor following WOT's suggestion in an email. It sure looks dirty and somewhat crooked. I thought it was not as upright as it should be but; what do I know? (second pic attached).

I guess we'll start on lazzer's COP install first thing tomorrow morning. I already called a friend with a background in electronics and his own soldering iron and we'll get on with that.

Any other suggestions welcome

Rafa
Attached Thumbnails
Is my car's ECU fried?-dsc00235-small-.jpg   Is my car's ECU fried?-dsc00246-small-.jpg  
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Old 12-25-2007, 10:40 AM   #9
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One final question, just in case WOT is right and I have a problem with my Crank Angle Sensor; does anyone know what years may be compatible?
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Old 12-25-2007, 12:19 PM   #10
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Crank sensor is supposed to be crooked (there's a small clearance between it and the crank trigger notches on the crank so it needs to be pretty close to them). The shop manual has the spec. If you havn't touched it it's not likely it's out of spec.
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Old 12-25-2007, 12:23 PM   #11
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Crank sensor is supposed to be crooked (there's a small clearance between it and the crank trigger notches on the crank so it needs to be pretty close to them). The shop manual has the spec. If you havn't touched it it's not likely it's out of spec.
Thanks. No I haven't touched it but I sure would like to clean it. If anyone has done that before I'd like to know how and with what.
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Old 12-25-2007, 12:27 PM   #12
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You could use a rag and somthing plastic friendly (silicone maybe?) and spray the rag down and wipe it gently. I replaced mine a while back and it's dirty now but doesn't seem to affect it.
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Old 12-25-2007, 04:11 PM   #13
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what year is your car? if its a 94 to early 95 i can send you a stock ECU for testing.
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Old 12-25-2007, 05:43 PM   #14
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It's a 96.
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Old 12-25-2007, 05:54 PM   #15
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i have the B61P i believe... the 1.8L ecu? if you want send me 10$ and i'll ship out hte ECU for testing
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Old 12-25-2007, 05:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
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It's a 96.
To all previous posters my most sincere thanks. I'll follow the spray advice. I've spent all day with the car testing different connections with a tester (actually more like looking how my youngest son did it!:gay.

I took lots of pics. The way I see this, Chad is absolutely right, my issue is most probably related to the coils. Following Chad's suggestion, I completely disconnected the car's ECU and tried to fire up the car connected only to the MS. He had already told me that the car would not idle. The car just did not fire up. There's no way in hell that both computers are bad. I'm going to follow my son's most recent advice and take the engineer's approach to this matter; complete one change, test and move on the next one. Since I've already bought the Toyota coil on plugs, I'm going to follow lazzer's advice and put them on first.

To Paul, I do appreciate your offer.

Thanks for taking the time to answer and enjoy Christmas dinner. As I stated before, ours was last night. I'm still way too full!.


Rafa
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Old 12-25-2007, 06:06 PM   #17
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i have the B61P i believe... the 1.8L ecu? if you want send me 10$ and i'll ship out hte ECU for testing
xXxGokoUxXx (man, was that sig on purpose?, I'm too old to write so many letters:gay:

Where are you located? Can you give me till tomorrow? If I do need it I can paypal the funds to you but first I would have to check with UPS about shipping charges. In my case that's not fun (ask Chad, he knows

Next time I'm only writing G when I answer you:gay: (I love that smilie, hahaha)

**** guys I already owe too many of you for assisting. (I guess I love this one too)

Rafa
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Old 12-25-2007, 06:18 PM   #18
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lol rafa.... as long as you have good references (which i bet you do) i'm willing to help out another brother in need

the original sig was suppose to be XxGoKoUxX but it was all messed up so i stuck with xXxGoKoUxX (i couldn't post on MT.net)

box+wrap=10$ at most shipped back at me via USPS
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Old 12-25-2007, 06:25 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by xXxGoKoUxXx View Post
lol rafa.... as long as you have good references (which i bet you do) i'm willing to help out another brother in need

the original sig was suppose to be XxGoKoUxX but it was all messed up so i stuck with xXxGoKoUxX (i couldn't post on MT.net)

box+wrap=10$ at most shipped back at me via USPS
G, you don't get it; if I do it that way I'll get it next February. Trust me, the total is going to be much closer to $100 than $10. Plus, the last time anyone sent me anything (4 brand new 550cc injectors from a vendor) I got them 2 months later.

Sunny Caribbean for me :gay: Chad was really surprised when it came time to ship the MS. Maybe next time I have to buy a big part I'll just pay the plane ticket. jaja.

BTW, I feel your pain with the sig. Phillip decided that my sig could not be Rafa so I'm stuck with Spaniard. Oh well!

Rafa
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Old 12-25-2007, 06:29 PM   #20
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Why does it have to be me always making the dumb questions? I realized today that my MAF is not installed. Should I install it while I'm at it?
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