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Old 02-15-2015, 05:16 PM   #21
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Okay. I was able to turn the crank trigger wheel around. That was definitely part of the issue. I am uploading another datalog and two composite logs. I noticed that now I only get errors in the composite log when I first start cranking. Everything else looks good from what I can see. What do I try next?



Attached Thumbnails
No spark on start up with VVT swap-correct%2520trigger%2520wheel%25202_zpsrg2ji2he.jpg   No spark on start up with VVT swap-correct%2520trigger%2520wheel%25201_zpsmpvlvg8p.jpg  
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File Type: msl 2015-02-15_16.07.32.msl (18.3 KB, 33 views)
File Type: csv 2015-02-15_16.05.31.csv (10.0 KB, 29 views)
File Type: csv 2015-02-15_16.06.31.csv (10.4 KB, 30 views)
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Old 02-15-2015, 05:25 PM   #22
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Looking through the log now. Does my voltage look fine? I am not sure what it would normally look like during cranking but it seems to get no higher than 10v while actively cranking.
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Old 02-16-2015, 02:43 AM   #23
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Both signals looks ok now, sync is fine. Ignore the startup doochebaggery.

Actual symptoms now? Does it try to catch at all or is it completely dead?

Edit: I just looked at your datalog, and your voltage is definitely messed up. 17V before you crank it? Definitely not right.
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:00 AM   #24
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The voltage before is likely due to me having a battery charger hooked up to it so my battery wouldn't die from all the cranking. I think the battery might need to be replaced but I wanted to know if the voltage while cranking was low and maybe not enough to ignite the fuel? Every now and then I'll get a back fire so I assume the voltage jumps. What is normal voltage while cranking?
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:03 AM   #25
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Anything between 9 and 11 during is reasonable.

Check your plugs first, maybe you've fouled them.
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:55 AM   #26
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I'll check the plugs at my first chance. If its not the plugs what would be the next step? I assume coils? If I have a known good set of coils and that still doesn't work I would be out of ideas.
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:02 AM   #27
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It wasn't even trying to start on Saturday. I don't know if it was better after turning the crank wheel around.

Yes, it is possible the plugs could have become fouled. I wasn't getting a spark signal with the timing light on Saturday and was not there Sunday to verify after the timing wheel was turned.

Reverent, when he first attempted to crank the car three weeks ago, he did not have the ground strap connecting the engine to the body of the car. Is it possible for this to cause damage to the MS? I noticed and added a ground strap two weeks ago, but something may have been damaged previously.

Would the occasional 17v from the charger have hurt anything?

Ryan, it might be good to go ahead and get the battery in to add some resilience to the cranking voltage, even when connected to a charger. And maybe then you can just use the little charger. Maybe get a spare set of plugs and put them in just to eliminate that variable.

I can come over after work some evening a day after you get the battery and plugs replaced and we can see if the timing light is detecting a spark now. I'm out of options unless someone sees something useful in the logs.
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:05 AM   #28
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Not having the ground strap between the engine and the body is really not god. Yes, there could have been damage, usually there's smoke in the first few seconds of cranking.

17V is also not good, although real damage only starts to occur above 20V or so.

For starters, replace or clean the plugs, and check for spark.
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Old 02-21-2015, 04:56 PM   #29
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I got new spark plugs and tried to test spark with a timing light. The timing light did not strobe off of cylinder one or three so it looks like neither driver is giving off a signal. However, there was a large backfire and a puff of smoke in the engine bay. I also took apart my MS2 to make sure something wasn't melted from the few times I tried to crank it without a ground strap on accident. Nothing seems out of place, melted, or burnt but I do not really know what I am looking at so I am going to upload the pictures.







Name:  20150221_151157_zpso2b78t0z.jpg
Views: 13
Size:  269.3 KB





Attached Thumbnails
No spark on start up with VVT swap-20150221_150923_zps7rvsocwi.jpg   No spark on start up with VVT swap-20150221_150946_zpsinvodngq.jpg   No spark on start up with VVT swap-20150221_151217_zpslk2hk44a.jpg   No spark on start up with VVT swap-20150221_151233_zpsqyonqcwo.jpg   No spark on start up with VVT swap-20150221_151312_zpsmmljmdof.jpg  

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Old 02-21-2015, 05:00 PM   #30
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I am completely out of ideas here and have no idea what could be going on. I have literally looked at every component of this spark system and come up with absolutely nothing.
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:10 PM   #31
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Since you now know that the input signals are correct, the next step is to make sure your coil igniter is getting a signal. I think some timing lights will pick up the 5v signal? Otherwise you need to use a light (noid light) or an oscilloscope or something.
Use the megasquirt test mode so you don't have to crank the engine (eliminates movement/isolates the experiment).

If that's ok then check over your igniter/coil. Make sure the wiring is correct. Trace the grounding route to the igniter. Try different spark plugs/grounding points/spark plug wires.

If it's still not getting spark then try a different coil/igniter.
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:16 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leboeuf View Post
Since you now know that the input signals are correct, the next step is to make sure your coil igniter is getting a signal. I think some timing lights will pick up the 5v signal? Otherwise you need to use a light (noid light) or an oscilloscope or something. Use the megasquirt test mode so you don't have to crank the engine (eliminates movement/isolates the experiment).
I'll figure out how to do this and see if anyone I know has these tools.

Quote:
If that's ok then check over your igniter/coil. Make sure the wiring is correct. Trace the grounding route to the igniter. Try different spark plugs/grounding points/spark plug wires.
I have been over all of this wiring. Its all stock wiring and nothing looks out of place.

Quote:
If it's still not getting spark then try a different coil/igniter.
I have tried two sets of stock coils. One was a known good set when the car blew up. The other was a low mileage set from the donor engine that blew up but I do not know if they were good. I may have to have someone who is local let me borrow coils off of their running car to try.
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Old 02-21-2015, 07:24 PM   #33
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AFAIK the coils just need a logic signal to spark. So In order to make sure they work, I would spark them manually and see if the strobe lights up.
That way you can tell if the problem is with the coils/strobe or with the logic (MS).
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Old 02-22-2015, 04:28 AM   #34
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Wait, you are not getting spark on coils 1 and 3? But you are getting spark on 2 and 4?
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:27 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Wait, you are not getting spark on coils 1 and 3? But you are getting spark on 2 and 4?
No spark anywhere. He's only got two coils on the stock MSM system.
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Old 02-22-2015, 08:46 AM   #36
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Check with the test mode. Don't use the timing light, get a few spark plugs, connect the coils and plug wires on those spark plugs (leave the hex section of the plugs resting on a good ground) and check for spark in each one.
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Old 02-22-2015, 01:54 PM   #37
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Test mode revealed spark on all four cylinders. All four injectors also behaved normally. I am thinking I may have fucked up the mechanical timing really bad or something.
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Old 02-22-2015, 02:22 PM   #38
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Well that's some better news!
It is odd that you're not getting spark while cranking. That indicates that your settings are not set in a way that makes the computer spark based on your cam/crank signals.
I would double check the MS spark/timing setup. I can't look over your log right now, but I think you can log the spark output signal? That would tell you if the MS is trying to spark.
If you haven't touched your settings and your log shows spark.... then I'd try to reload the firmware.
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Old 02-22-2015, 03:13 PM   #39
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Its definitely mechanical timing. Here are some pictures to illustrate the problem. All of the exterior markings line up perfectly and I was able to verify that cylinder one was at TDC when it was suppose to be.

Name:  20150222_135931_zpsc2sy0qgh.jpg
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Size:  202.1 KB



Time to remove the valve cover for closer inspection.



Well that is not right.....the intake cam should be pointing to the 9 O'clock postion and not the 12 O'clock position. How the **** did that happen. If I remember correctly there is a guide pin and the cam gear can really only slide on one way. I need to take it off and figure out the problem.
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Old 02-22-2015, 04:47 PM   #40
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Post up a picture of the cam gears.

Also...**** yeah man! That is a good sign, hopefully fixing this problem will get you up and running.
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