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Old 08-10-2013, 05:25 PM   #1
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Default No start after MS2 install and hydrolock - solved

Not sure if this is a MS problem or an engine problem, but I figured I'd post here.
Installed a MS2E on a 91. Took a while to get the car running. Idle very rough but it was idling. We had it running for several minutes while connected to TS. No problems really.
Then shut the car down and come back 15 mins later. Car would immediately hydrolock upon start. Tried a 2nd time. Definitely hydrolocked.
No idea if we left the ignition on during those 15 mins, but I doubt it.
Can't see how it got hydrolocked, but it did. Removed spark plugs and cranked. Fuel everywhere, all over the car.
Put in fresh spark plugs and now car won't start. It just cranks and cranks and doesn't even tries to catch.
We definitely have fuel, and we also have spark. Like I said, engine was running 15mins earlier.

Found little puddle of oil under the car after pushing it a bit further :(. Can't see where it's coming from, appears to be from the turbo.
Oil level is OK but oil smells of fuel. Coolant is fine, no smell or anything.

Any ideas?

Will add a datalog of cranking and composite log in the morning.
Attached Files
File Type: msq JM.msq (102.4 KB, 61 views)

Last edited by WestfieldMX5; 08-15-2013 at 06:48 PM. Reason: added msq
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:43 PM   #2
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what were the afr's when it started/ran/etc
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:46 PM   #3
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It was idling at 14.7 ish. Prior to getting it running, it was idling pig rich (black soot), AFR pegged at 10. Took a while to get it right, but it was running in the end.
We were trying to get the idle stable before turning it off. Played with the idle valve settings and had it running several minutes at different rpm's while adjusting the idle valve.
Idle was very rough, but above idle it ran fine.
Loaded new firmware (from alpha14 to alpha15), same result.
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Old 08-12-2013, 02:47 PM   #4
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I'll need to wait on the data log.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:17 PM   #5
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My MS did the same thing last week (filled the cylinders with fuel) and it was far from easy to get the car to start on the stock ECU afterwards (even with clearing everything out, new plugs, etc). Considering the tune on your MS isn't all the great, it might be easier to start it first on the stock ECU before trying again on the MS. Once you get the started and let it idle for a couple minutes it will be far easier to start the next time.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:54 PM   #6
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Haven't had time to work on the car unfortunately. I received the stock ecu and injectors today (it was running a Link before the MS) and will try to get it running on the stock ecu tomorrow.
Will do the datalogs on MS first.
I sure hope I can get it running on the stock ecu and didn't do any damage to the engine.
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:01 AM   #7
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VE in the low 60s at idle seems very high even with a reqfuel of 5.8 and deadtime of 0.8 ms.
My setup is similar with 425cc, 6.2 reqfuel, 1ms deadtime but it idles stoich in the low 30s

Is there a reason why the injector PWM current limiting is off?

Use 3.2.5 release instead of alpha code.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:27 AM   #8
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Here's the logs. I turned pwm limiting off trying to get it running. It was on prior. But with high imp injectors, I don't think pwm limiting is necessary anyway.
Include afr target is turned on, which makes the table nearly flat.
I'll try loading the release version and report back.
Attached Files
File Type: csv JM.csv (31.3 KB, 46 views)
File Type: msl JM.msl (108.8 KB, 56 views)
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:41 AM   #9
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That's mostly on the cranking pulse width; what size injectors does it have?

Also, the MAP signal may not be reading quite right, though it's hard to tell at such low RPM.
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:53 PM   #10
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It has RX7 injectors. Map reads a bit high indeed, but it reads 100 'at rest'.
When it idled, it did so at about 37kPa where I expect about 30-31 on a miata.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:35 AM   #11
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I'd try dialing back the cranking pulse widths.
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:36 PM   #12
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Something odd I noticed is that I have no moving dot in the fuel table. I do have it in the ignition table. Something wrong with the setup?
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:42 PM   #13
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reload the firmware and find out.
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Old 08-14-2013, 04:28 PM   #14
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Yeah, on the todo list for today but didn't have time. Will try in the morning. Fingers crossed that it's a firmware issue.
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:48 PM   #15
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Solved. Thanks for everyone's input.
No firmware issue, just a combination of bad spark plugs, bad ISC valve and too much fuel.
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