pre-dyno tuning / minimizing dyno time and ching-dow
#41
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Also if you are looking for a spot on tune contact Tony at T1 in Dallas, he is the man.
He tuned a buddy of mines Civic for under $600 and that included installing Hondata, and the car seriously behaves like stock.
Not only that, but you will go home with a baggy that has a lifetime supply of sparkplugs as he pulls them after every run to check for detonation and swaps in a new set.
He tuned a buddy of mines Civic for under $600 and that included installing Hondata, and the car seriously behaves like stock.
Not only that, but you will go home with a baggy that has a lifetime supply of sparkplugs as he pulls them after every run to check for detonation and swaps in a new set.
#42
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The problem with dyno tuning, is that the shop has you by the *****. They can keep the car on the dyno all day if they want to, while they check out child **** on the computer.
Last edited by hustler; 08-10-2008 at 11:22 PM.
#43
Yeah, he is really big on Hondata and Motec, those are his ECUs of choice.
Meh, I can see your point, but at the same time if I was in his shoes I would rather tune somebody else's car than run the dyno while you tune your own for less money. He isn't exactly hurting for customers you know.
Anyway, good luck. I'm not familiar with any other tuners in your area.
#44
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Yeah, he is really big on Hondata and Motec, those are his ECUs of choice.
Meh, I can see your point, but at the same time if I was in his shoes I would rather tune somebody else's car than run the dyno while you tune your own for less money. He isn't exactly hurting for customers you know.
Anyway, good luck. I'm not familiar with any other tuners in your area.
Meh, I can see your point, but at the same time if I was in his shoes I would rather tune somebody else's car than run the dyno while you tune your own for less money. He isn't exactly hurting for customers you know.
Anyway, good luck. I'm not familiar with any other tuners in your area.
#47
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Last edited by levnubhin; 10-07-2009 at 03:06 PM.
#48
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I've also hear that once the AFR is at target, to advance spark timing, while temps lower, until the stop lowering. They say this indicates that spark is at LPP and time should be dropped back to just inside the temp flat-line.
does this make sense? I could log EGT with MS, and it might be really easy. Then I could get it on a dyno and make a couple pulls to be sure everything is safe.
does this make sense? I could log EGT with MS, and it might be really easy. Then I could get it on a dyno and make a couple pulls to be sure everything is safe.
#49
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i would use EGT only as a gut check since both AFR and spark affect EGT.
but remember, AFR affects spark tuning a lot less than spark tuning affects AFR. an AFR that's plus or minus 1 (11:1-13:1) is not going to change power output as much as spark being off 3 degrees.
also keep in mind that high EGT is a product of fire on the wrong side of the valves. either because a lean mixture burns slower (and is still burning as the exh valves open) or because you ignited it so late (retard) that it's burning as the exhaust opens. similarly, not advancing spark as RPMs rise will lead to the same result--the burn cycle stays the same while the time between spark and valve events is shorter.
just do a quick fuel autotune and then start monkeying with spark.
but remember, AFR affects spark tuning a lot less than spark tuning affects AFR. an AFR that's plus or minus 1 (11:1-13:1) is not going to change power output as much as spark being off 3 degrees.
also keep in mind that high EGT is a product of fire on the wrong side of the valves. either because a lean mixture burns slower (and is still burning as the exh valves open) or because you ignited it so late (retard) that it's burning as the exhaust opens. similarly, not advancing spark as RPMs rise will lead to the same result--the burn cycle stays the same while the time between spark and valve events is shorter.
just do a quick fuel autotune and then start monkeying with spark.
#50
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i would use EGT only as a gut check since both AFR and spark affect EGT.
but remember, AFR affects spark tuning a lot less than spark tuning affects AFR. an AFR that's plus or minus 1 (11:1-13:1) is not going to change power output as much as spark being off 3 degrees.
also keep in mind that high EGT is a product of fire on the wrong side of the valves. either because a lean mixture burns slower (and is still burning as the exh valves open) or because you ignited it so late (retard) that it's burning as the exhaust opens. similarly, not advancing spark as RPMs rise will lead to the same result--the burn cycle stays the same while the time between spark and valve events is shorter.
just do a quick fuel autotune and then start monkeying with spark.
but remember, AFR affects spark tuning a lot less than spark tuning affects AFR. an AFR that's plus or minus 1 (11:1-13:1) is not going to change power output as much as spark being off 3 degrees.
also keep in mind that high EGT is a product of fire on the wrong side of the valves. either because a lean mixture burns slower (and is still burning as the exh valves open) or because you ignited it so late (retard) that it's burning as the exhaust opens. similarly, not advancing spark as RPMs rise will lead to the same result--the burn cycle stays the same while the time between spark and valve events is shorter.
just do a quick fuel autotune and then start monkeying with spark.
Unfortunately autotune never worked for me. I've tied brain's script mods but with no success.
#51
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i guess I meant to say that AFR and spark both affect power.
spark wont affect AFR much at all which is why you can tune it quite a bit before re-doing your fuel map. as the engine starts to make more power at the same RPM/MAP values though, you'll have to add in more fuel. a powerful engine is a thirsty engine.
and fix the autotune. or at least learn to use MLV to do it.
spark wont affect AFR much at all which is why you can tune it quite a bit before re-doing your fuel map. as the engine starts to make more power at the same RPM/MAP values though, you'll have to add in more fuel. a powerful engine is a thirsty engine.
and fix the autotune. or at least learn to use MLV to do it.
#52
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i guess I meant to say that AFR and spark both affect power.
spark wont affect AFR much at all which is why you can tune it quite a bit before re-doing your fuel map. as the engine starts to make more power at the same RPM/MAP values though, you'll have to add in more fuel. a powerful engine is a thirsty engine.
and fix the autotune. or at least learn to use MLV to do it.
spark wont affect AFR much at all which is why you can tune it quite a bit before re-doing your fuel map. as the engine starts to make more power at the same RPM/MAP values though, you'll have to add in more fuel. a powerful engine is a thirsty engine.
and fix the autotune. or at least learn to use MLV to do it.
#54
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Whoa, its like a chemistry classroom in here now.
#55
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reality is more that you need excess fuel for complete combustion of the oxygen available because of the non-ideal nature of a motor. fuel sticks to parts, doesn't vaporize well, etc. dump in more than you need and hope for the best. that need has declined as engines are better designed but it's still there.
i dont know about fat/tq and lean/hp but the difference there is probably more engine speed and airflow related. i wonder if that's more a result than a cause.
i dont know about fat/tq and lean/hp but the difference there is probably more engine speed and airflow related. i wonder if that's more a result than a cause.
#56
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Sorry hustler but I have to ask; no one has replied about what would be an acceptable value for EGTs.
I changed my maps the other day and ever since I find my EGTs are a little higher than before. Can someone give me a reasonable range in EGT temps?
Thanks
I changed my maps the other day and ever since I find my EGTs are a little higher than before. Can someone give me a reasonable range in EGT temps?
Thanks
#58
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That was precisely why I asked. I don't see temps on my EGT gauge going over 1,000* and that's with the sensor located less than 1 foot from my turbo (really close to the manifold). Before changing my maps I used to see 800* temps on the gauge but I can recall hearing my local tuner saying that 1,000* temps were a bit high.
#59
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That was precisely why I asked. I don't see temps on my EGT gauge going over 1,000* and that's with the sensor located less than 1 foot from my turbo (really close to the manifold). Before changing my maps I used to see 800* temps on the gauge but I can recall hearing my local tuner saying that 1,000* temps were a bit high.