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Old 06-02-2016, 02:34 PM   #1
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Default Rev MS3Enhanced, MSM, first run issues

Background:

2004 MSM, FM full intake, stock IAT sensor, Turbosmart MBC, AEM UEGO wideband/failsafe, FM downpipe/exhaust. Brand new Rev built MS3 Enhanced. Flow Force 620cc EV14 injectors.

Fired it up for the first time today. Timing was only about a degree off. Had a hard time idling when cold. Ran fine off idle, but would be in the 500rpm or less range when cold, would hesitate and pop when throttle was applied, sometimes stall. Am going to check the timing again once I can get the idle to stabilize.

AFR reading on the AEM gauge was saying 13.6 while Tunerstudio would say 14.8. Once warmed up, idle raised to the 700-800rpm range and would hesitate a lot less when applying throttle.

Couple questions:

1. I enabled data logging on both tabs (Diagnostics and High Speed Loggers/Graphing and Logging). Do I need to enable any other logging settings beyond Tunerstudio's defaults to get proper information in the logs? I think I missed the boat on the High Speed this time, I can't find a CSV file anywhere. I guess you need to somehow "save" the log before disconnecting from the MS.

2. Is there a method to "calibrate" the wideband? I am running the wideband analog from the AEM (white wire) to the Megasquirt (solid yellow) and utilizing the sensor ground off the MS (black/green) for the sensor ground wire (brown) on the AEM unit.

3. CEL on the car is flashing once running. Is this normal? As I said earlier, it was idling really low and bucking/popping when trying to get the RPM's up to keep it running. I'm thinking knock sensor tripped, but I put my OBD2 reader on and it gave me no codes.
Attached Files
File Type: msl 2016-06-02_12.48.30.msl (3.21 MB, 31 views)
File Type: msq CurrentTune.msq (244.4 KB, 44 views)
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Old 06-02-2016, 02:48 PM   #2
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OBD2 reader won't return codes with a MSLabs ecu. It will return certain information that Rev has programed but no codes.

2. Under the Wideband Calibration menu you can do custom values and you have to sort of play with custom values to get the AEM gauge to match in TS. I think mine are set something like 1v -> 9.7afr and 4v -> 18.7. Yours might be slightly different.

3. You will have to look in the CEL settings on the MS to see why yours is flashing, I don't know what Rev sets them at by default.

You need to tune your idle which is why it is idling low. I have no clue if the MSLabs ecu's use open or closed loop idle.
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:12 PM   #3
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Your owners manual for AEM wideband has the exact voltages. Have you put the REQ fuel and injector pulsewidths in for your flow force yet or was it calibrated from Rev? Just got mine idling nicely with a DIYPNP unit and ID1000 injectors. Had to get injector settings perfect then VE table needed more in cells around idle to stay running correctly at normal temp after WUE tapered off. Just added small increments until it smoothed out then adjusted cells one by one so it wouldn't oscillate when fan and AC kick on and off.
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzay222 View Post
Your owners manual for AEM wideband has the exact voltages. Have you put the REQ fuel and injector pulsewidths in for your flow force yet or was it calibrated from Rev? Just got mine idling nicely with a DIYPNP unit and ID1000 injectors. Had to get injector settings perfect then VE table needed more in cells around idle to stay running correctly at normal temp after WUE tapered off. Just added small increments until it smoothed out then adjusted cells one by one so it wouldn't oscillate when fan and AC kick on and off.
The values in the owner manual for the AEM are not always perfect. For all 3 of my AEM widebands I have had to alter them slightly to get both gauges to match.
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:32 PM   #5
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Good point. Also depending on exact model of wideband it may be available to select in drop down box in Tunerstudio.
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:38 PM   #6
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It is in the drop down box in Tunerstudio, so I'll be doing that. It's the 30-4900 IIRC.

Ok, found this (https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...4/#post1313917) handy little post showing the dead times curve for my Flow Force injectors. Put that info in. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction there.

As far as fuel calculation goes, my flow rates for my specific injectors were listed at 644cc/min (one at 646) on the card that came with them. Should I use that for the Required Fuel calibration setting or use the advertised 620cc? My brain says "Dummy, use the good data they provided you (644)" but I just want to be sure.
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:41 PM   #7
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I really hope I'm not coming off as a "SEARCH NEWB" type new user. Feel free to hurl cats at me if so. And thanks so much for the help guys, this whole project is a pretty big bite to chew knowledge wise for a first timer.
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIglu View Post
It is in the drop down box in Tunerstudio, so I'll be doing that. It's the 30-4900 IIRC.

Ok, found this (https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...4/#post1313917) handy little post showing the dead times curve for my Flow Force injectors. Put that info in. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction there.

As far as fuel calculation goes, my flow rates for my specific injectors were listed at 644cc/min (one at 646) on the card that came with them. Should I use that for the Required Fuel calibration setting or use the advertised 620cc? My brain says "Dummy, use the good data they provided you (644)" but I just want to be sure.
Don't forget to correct for the pressure difference depending on what pressure the injectors were tested at. You have an NB2 (not sure if NB1 is diff from NB2).
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:55 PM   #9
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I would use the good data. Also there is pulsewidths and small pulsewidths you may have already found all that info. The DIYPNP plug and play has closed loop idle by default, however I had good results starting in open loop idle and tuning fuel until I was happy with idle, then switching back I closed loop and tuning more. With their basemap I found the ASE and WUE settings were fine but it was the main VE that needed more fuel to idle with the bigger injectors.
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Old 06-02-2016, 04:18 PM   #10
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In my current tune, the small pulsewidth control is disabled.

I plugged in the settings and fired her up. Still flashing CEL, but no indications of what could be causing it on the CAN1 dash which has all the error codes.

Pretty sure I actually succeeded in making the logs this time. Will attach them for your viewing entertainment.

Let the Warmup Enrichment Autotune (I'm on the new Tunerstudio 2.9.120 beta) do it's work. It def used to be a flat line for fuel as the coolant temp climbed. Now it's a downhill line as the temp climbs indicating more fuel in colder engine temps.

Idle is still lower than I'd like it as you can see from the logs. AFR at idle seems to be alright when talking about cruise AFR, but do you guys think it should be richer than the 14.7 target?
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Old 06-02-2016, 04:21 PM   #11
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Logs:
Attached Files
File Type: msl 2016-06-02_14.46.31.msl (2.70 MB, 32 views)
File Type: msq CurrentTune.msq (244.5 KB, 37 views)
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Old 06-02-2016, 04:21 PM   #12
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Don't use the WUE autotuning until your actual VE table is tuned, or you will have to redo that when after you tune your VE table.

I genereally idle in the 14.5-15.0AFR range. Some fluctuation is fine.
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Old 06-02-2016, 04:23 PM   #13
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I have his latest model MS2 enhanced.

CEL comes up when RPMs drop below a certain value (i think it may be below 400rpms)

if he sent you a paper manual with the ECU there is a part that tells you what CEL lights mean what.

you also get it when a connection is lost (lost sync) but I think thats the same cel for low rpm
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Old 06-02-2016, 04:52 PM   #14
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You didn't load any "internet maps" by any chance, did you?
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Old 06-02-2016, 04:56 PM   #15
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Oh, disconnect the stock MSM EBC and the idle will function properly.
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Old 06-02-2016, 04:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
OBD2 reader won't return codes with a MSLabs ecu. It will return certain information that Rev has programed but no codes.
The Enhanced MS3 does return codes, both permanent and pending. By default, it's programmed not to check against any, but there about 60 codes that you can enable, from P0101 to U3002.
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Old 06-02-2016, 05:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
The Enhanced MS3 does return codes, both permanent and pending. By default, it's programmed not to check against any, but there about 60 codes that you can enable, from P0101 to U3002.
Off topic I know but does this apply to the Basic MS3 from you also Reverant?
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Old 06-02-2016, 06:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
You didn't load any "internet maps" by any chance, did you?

No. Just the one you made and sent with it.

ill disconnect the EBC plug and try again later tonight. Thanks!
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:14 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
Off topic I know but does this apply to the Basic MS3 from you also Reverant?
The Basic MS3 only offers what the stock MS3 firmware can offer. The Enhanced/Extreme have additional processors inside them, that add a lot of features, including OBD-II.
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Old 06-03-2016, 09:56 AM   #20
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Disconnecting the stock MBC was the trick. It now runs, and well, on the stock basemap. Took a nice ride and started autotuning last night and again on my way to work this morning. She drives good so far. And no more CEL!
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