Seq inj + Ign question - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-23-2013, 03:16 PM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default Seq inj + Ign question

With a MS3X/MS3Basic, I wire up the ign and inj as ACDB over 1-2-3-4, correct?

Thanks guys!
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 04:35 PM   #2
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,324
Total Cats: 1,922
Default

No.

The firing order is 1-3-4-2.

So, the correction is:

A = 1
B = 3
C = 4
D = 2

Or stated another way:

1 = A
2 = D
3 = B
4 = C
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 05:37 PM   #3
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,884
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

or

Alpha = I
Bravo = III
Charlie = IV
Delta = II
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 06:29 PM   #4
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,324
Total Cats: 1,922
Default

Or

α = H
β = Li
γ = Be
δ = He
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 07:04 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
triple88a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,131
Total Cats: 598
Default

triple88a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 07:22 PM   #6
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Or

α = H
β = Li
γ = Be
δ = He
I have to admit that this made me laugh my *** off Joe.
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 10:22 PM   #7
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

All right.

Last issue before I have everything wired up - I'm done with everything but the injector harness.

I used to have Green Wire to Injectors 1+3, and Yellow Wire to Injectors 2+4.

I know I want 2D and 4C, but where do I connect Green and Yellow to now/how do I tell which is A or B?

I'm assuming Green is A, and Yellow is B?
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 10:39 PM   #8
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,324
Total Cats: 1,922
Default

And you've lost me with this discussion of a Green wire and a Yellow wire.

What, specifically, are you trying to do?
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 10:46 PM   #9
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

I'm trying to figure out what wire goes to what for A/B on the injector end, Joe.

Originally, I had it wired for batch injection, one wire to 1/3, one to 2/4. The only problem is I'm not sure which is which for purposes of rewiring this (custom) injector harness - I'm done with CD on the injection, ABCD on ignition, and all the other rewiring I needed to do, I just have to figure out which is A and B for injection. I know which goes to 1234 on the injectors, just not which is which on the stock plug which is where this custom injector harness plugs into.
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 10:53 PM   #10
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,884
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

what model year? it doesnt really matter...color is meaningless.
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 10:54 PM   #11
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

91
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 10:54 PM   #12
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,324
Total Cats: 1,922
Default

EDIT: You and brainey posted while I was typing this. So you can ignore the first part. I'll leave the original message intact for posterity. Since I don't know what modifications you've made in your "custom injector harness" I can't address that side of it.

Ok, I'm going to assume that you have a '94, since you haven't told me otherwise and it's not in your sig. Here's the wiring of your injectors at the ECU connector.



And here's the pinout of the MS3X connector, with regard to the injectors:



ECU pin 2U (inj 1) to MS3X pin 19 (inj A)
ECU pin 2V (inj 2) to MS3X pin 10 (inj D)
ECU pin 2Y (inj 3) to MS3X pin 16 (inj B)
ECU pin 2Z (inj 4) to MS3X pin 13 (inj C)
Attached Thumbnails
Seq inj + Ign question-94inj.gif   Seq inj + Ign question-ms3inj.gif  
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 11:02 PM   #13
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Got the wiring for a 90-93 offhand, Joe?

I could backtrack through the harness to find what color is what on the wires if I could find out what was A and B for colors on harness wiring.
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 11:10 PM   #14
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Logically, I'm thinking 1+3 is A, and 2+4 is B.

I'd test directly through the harness to the MS3 connector, except that Rev uses non-standard connectors for the MS3X aspect...
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 11:18 PM   #15
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,324
Total Cats: 1,922
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Got the wiring for a 90-93 offhand, Joe?



Quote:
I could backtrack through the harness to find what color is what on the wires if I could find out what was A and B for colors on harness wiring.
Ideally, they'd have been connected such that 1/3 = A and 2/4 = B, assuming that only channels A and B were used (more on this in the last paragraph.)

However, the banked injection mode on the MS does not properly emulate the OEM design, as the OEM ECU had only one squirt per line per cycle. Thus, there is no absolute standard for banked injector phasing, since it will always be "wrong" no matter how you do it.

I created a thread about this here: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...47229&p=340885 In that thread, I show scope captures of OEM banked injector phasing vs. several different MS configurations. It is my opnion that 1/3 = A and 2/4 = B is the least incorrect way to wire banked injectors to an MS, assuming you are only using the A and B channels.

The actual correct way to do it, if you want to match the OEM design, is to wire 1/3 = D and 2/4 = B, however this is a more advanced topic than you probably care to be distracted by right now.

TL;DR: You need to trace the wires to be sure.
Attached Thumbnails
Seq inj + Ign question-90.gif  
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 11:21 PM   #16
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Yellow should connect 1+3 in the stock wiring, and yellow/blue for 2+4 correct Joe?

Thank you, I can easily track that back!
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 10:59 AM   #17
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,884
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Yellow should connect 1+3 in the stock wiring, and yellow/blue for 2+4 correct Joe?

Thank you, I can easily track that back!
sigh.

god forbid you look at this:




this question was answered in 2010.

But if you're wiring for seq, it doesnt mater which of the injectors goes back to the oem wiring so long as they all go back to the MS in the correct firing order. I'm almost positive I have inj C and D going from my MS through the OEM wiring for some reason.
Attached Thumbnails
Seq inj + Ign question-9093-standalone-ms3x.jpg  
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 01:37 PM   #18
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,324
Total Cats: 1,922
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
But if you're wiring for seq, it doesnt mater which of the injectors goes back to the oem wiring so long as they all go back to the MS in the correct firing order.
^ THIS

There is no single, unified standard for converting a 1.6 engine to full sequential. When I did mine, I abandoned the two stock wires and ran a new sub-harness with four new wires (plus two more grounds, just because I like grounds.)
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 05:09 PM   #19
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
blaen99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,112
Total Cats: 27
Default

Well, I may end up doing that yet Joe - except I have to figure out what pins are what on Rev's MS3.

Thanks guys. Plugging everything up and preparing to start the sumbitch today.
blaen99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 05:28 PM   #20
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,324
Total Cats: 1,922
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Well, I may end up doing that yet Joe - except I have to figure out what pins are what on Rev's MS3.
Understood. Which is why I said you'd have to trace the wires.

For all I know, it's entirely possible that your two injector channels are connected to INJ I and INJ J, which are the MS3 nomenclature for the two injector channels on the main board, as opposed to the MS3X board. You won't know until you trace the wires.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM
NA Seat Sliders and Seat Belt Receivers skipstr Miata parts for sale/trade 2 09-28-2015 11:53 PM


Tags
joe perez

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:17 PM.