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Old 08-03-2014, 07:22 PM   #1
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Default Slightly confused, DIYPNP I/O Clarification Please

The really big difference for a early 90-93 1.6 miata between MS2 and MS3 is the extra I/O?

Running full sequential spark and injection requires all 4 outputs on a DIYPNP, right? Only the seq. fuel injection requires the extra "add-in" board?

What would I be loosing running like that, what am I missing? Besides fan control, I don't really see what else I'd need to use those outputs for. I can still use boost control, or does that require one of those outputs? Seems to me it's already accounted for, with a driver already built into the "diy" PCB?

I think I could find a simple external fan controller that wouldn't suck that much, maybe manually run it with the AC, plus an extra switch "just in case." If that's all I'd be loosing, I think I could deal with the MS2 over the MS3 which looks like it may be a little more expensive and complex in the long run.

Does AC idle up require an input? All I think I'd want to run is launch control, AC idle up, and a wideband, maybe baro correction if I go back to the mountains again, which I think just about covers the inputs. Can't really think of what else I might need... Upgrading the TPS just uses the already accounted for TPS input, right? The IAT, also accounted for?

From my research I think I'll be ordering a DIYPNP this week, just hoping for some clarification before I pull the trigger! I'm building a simple ~200whp miata, with a tiny e-bay T3 .42/.48, shooting for a super tame, better than stock, in town street manners.

Thanks!
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Old 08-03-2014, 10:54 PM   #2
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requires 8 outputs. I wouldn't do both seq. fuel and spark on a ms2.
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Old 08-03-2014, 11:09 PM   #3
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Four of those 8 on/off outputs are already accounted for though, right? Running full seq. would require using all 4 general purpose on/off outputs. Am I not reading the feature list right? Any particular reason why you wouldn't run full seq with ms2?
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Old 08-05-2014, 04:10 PM   #4
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While you can run sequential fuel and ignition with a DIYPNP, there isn't much I/O left for anything else (you'd have the IAC output, PA0, and a couple inputs). And there isn't much benefit to sequential ignition.

Yes, A/C idle up requires an input.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:37 PM   #5
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Hmm, I've done a bit more reading and I'm still a tad confused but I think I've got it figured out, for the most part!

PA0 can be used for boost control, correct? That's a minute down the road, though. I'm fairly certain I have the answer, but sequential fuel, relay for the cooling fans, IAC and boost solenoid should all run, right?

I just ordered the N72 DIYPNP kit, plus the seq. module and IAT kit. Also picked up a MTX-L wideband. My stock O2 sensor is shot, can I just leave it out and use the wideband for the MSq?

Think I'll probably keep it easy and try to get it running stock before I go adding sequential fuel, and a turbo...

Thanks for the advice guys!
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Old 08-13-2014, 12:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Cramer View Post
While you can run sequential fuel and ignition with a DIYPNP, there isn't much I/O left for anything else (you'd have the IAC output, PA0, and a couple inputs). And there isn't much benefit to sequential ignition.

Yes, A/C idle up requires an input.
I've been struggling over the same thing the past day too.

Say I was interested in doing the coil on plug mod (with toyota coilpacks i believe) because my oem 99 coilpack is going bad which would have me go to sequential ignition correct or would I be able to go and do a wasted spark instead with coilpacks?

I'm somewhat forcing my self to re dive into all this but basically eventually I plan on turboing and it seems like a perfect time to just do a megasquirt but I'd like to maintain the A/C and everything on my 99 while doing sequential fuel and maybe spark? Megasquirt naming conventions confuses the **** out of me ms3 is different then megasquirtIII which is different then 3.0 which really I feel like I need a spreadsheet to fill it out.


Then the DIY PNPs are different then the PNP and there's different PNP's too... Which one do I need, can I get away with a DIY PNP or should I just build from the ground up a MSII
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Old 08-13-2014, 01:10 AM   #7
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I believe I have read somewhere that the yota COPS can run wasted spark and not burn up? Some coils can't handle the extra heat though, or so I've also read.

Something I was going to look into down the road, too!
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Old 08-13-2014, 12:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98mystique2 View Post
Then the DIY PNPs are different then the PNP and there's different PNP's too... Which one do I need, can I get away with a DIY PNP or should I just build from the ground up a MSII
It's not that hard:

As far as MS iterations: there's the MS1, MS2, MS3, and a Microsquirt.

There are a few model specific ECUs you can buy based on the above hardware: The MSPNP, the MSPNP2, and the MSPNP-PRO.

These are offerings from DIYAUTOTUNE.com that allow you to run a PNP ECU based off different MS variants in your miata.

They also make a kit based on the microsquirt, the DIYPNP.

And there's also a full-on universal ECU the MS3PRO that's a complete ECU.

If you see reference to v3.0, that's the verison of the circuit board that's housing a MS CPU. A v3.0 board can be either MS1, MS2, or MS3 CPUs.

The MSPNP, for example, is a v3.57 board running a MS1 CPU.
The MSPNP2, utilizes the Microsquirt MS2 Module.
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Old 08-14-2014, 12:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
It's not that hard:

As far as MS iterations: there's the MS1, MS2, MS3, and a Microsquirt.

There are a few model specific ECUs you can buy based on the above hardware: The MSPNP, the MSPNP2, and the MSPNP-PRO.

These are offerings from DIYAUTOTUNE.com that allow you to run a PNP ECU based off different MS variants in your miata.

They also make a kit based on the microsquirt, the DIYPNP.

And there's also a full-on universal ECU the MS3PRO that's a complete ECU.

If you see reference to v3.0, that's the verison of the circuit board that's housing a MS CPU. A v3.0 board can be either MS1, MS2, or MS3 CPUs.

The MSPNP, for example, is a v3.57 board running a MS1 CPU.
The MSPNP2, utilizes the Microsquirt MS2 Module.
They list the megasquirt 3 as a daughter board though which thwos me off... So its an add on to an existing megasquirt board you'd have?

And microsquirt is that not ms2 that's a separate thing now?

But what about the http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtiii-wpcb-v30-unassembled-kit-with-black-case-p-419.html?osCsid=d327bba9afdde9787fd46eb8e73dc91c
They keep saying daughter board daughter board daughter board which throws me off since they sell standalone ms3 pro

I just wanna know which one I need to keep ac and functionality while gaining sequential spark injection launch control and at some point turbo with antilag. Then I member some guy on here had schematics he made of upgrades for some megasquirt but it was years ago when I was originally researching and have lost that since then
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Old 08-14-2014, 04:07 AM   #10
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I'd bet the MSIII daughter board is about identical to the MSII daughter board, it's a bare bones universal application board that is meant to be supplemented with an application specific PCB. Upgrading a MSII ready PCB with a MSIII daughter board doesn't sound possible...

The MS3 pro doesn't need a daughter board, it's built to be universal from the get go and the price reflects that. You pay for things you likely don't need, or won't ever need.

Microsquirt is a microsquirt daughter board in a compact case, meant for power sports stuff like ATVs and motorcycles. Instead of using a app specific PCB, you use the tiny ECU and build the supporting circuitry externally.

If I'm not mistaken, you ought to be able to run full sequential on a MSII. Sure, there will be zero outputs left, maybe not enough depending on how you look at it. All I can see you absolutely having to do without is ECU relay driven radiator fan control, which I think I can live with. You'd be using WLED/ALED for third and fourth spark channels, PT6/PT7 for two more injector circuits, PA0 for boost solenoid control, which leaves JS5/JS4 for AC idle up and launch control input.

Eh, I'll just wing it

Last edited by deezums; 08-14-2014 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 08-14-2014, 08:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98mystique2 View Post
They list the megasquirt 3 as a daughter board though which thwos me off... So its an add on to an existing megasquirt board you'd have?
MS2 is also a daughterboard.

Quote:
And microsquirt is that not ms2 that's a separate thing now?
microsquirt is a stamped circuit board with A MS2 CPU built in.

Quote:
But what about the MegaSquirt-III Engine Management System w/PCB3 - UnAssembled Kit with black case DIYAutoTune.com
They keep saying daughter board daughter board daughter board which throws me off since they sell standalone ms3 pro
If you want to build your own MS3 ECU this is what you'd buy.

Yes, they sell a standalone PNP MS3Pro, but that shouldn't confuse you with the build-your-own kit--two different animals. It's the difference between going out and buying Mk4 Roadster ready to drive, or buying the Factory Five kit to build one yourself.


Quote:
I just wanna know which one I need to keep ac and functionality while gaining sequential spark injection launch control and at some point turbo with antilag. Then I member some guy on here had schematics he made of upgrades for some megasquirt but it was years ago when I was originally researching and have lost that since then
lol. building your own MS1, MS2, MS3, or DIYPNP has all been well documented here.

I recommend everyone that wants to build a unit build a MS3 kti like you linked, plus the MS3x Expander Board. Then you still have to take care of building a PNP harness.
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Old 08-14-2014, 10:26 AM   #12
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Megasquirt Product Comparison

Finally found the chart, ms3 kit it is lol. Harness building is no biggie I'm proficient with a soldering iron. I just need to buy more solder.

Pleasure to see you're still around
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Old 08-16-2014, 02:40 AM   #13
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IMG_20140816_000710_zpsb995a36c.jpg?t=1408165634

DIYautotune's shipping is pretty damn quick
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:12 PM   #14
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I'm flashing a DIYPNP I built today as we speak.
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:48 PM   #15
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Haha, just got back from best buy with a serial adapter. Stupid ebay, should have just ordered the adapter from diyauto. Think I have it flashed right, maybe. Was super easy, 3.3.2 is decent, right?

I need a timing light, and some vac line. I hope that I can fit my wideband in the old o2 bung, because I think I might be able to roll today then! Don't think I can drill and weld the bung like I'd like it tonight.

This thing is fun, and I'm on a roll. Gonna go grab a HF timing light real fast
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:56 PM   #16
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IMG_20140816_165146_zpse32e6c8c.jpg?t=1408225922

Think I have everything right, except I may just move the 3/4 injectors straight to db15 off the seq. PCB. Not actually wired for it yet, probably try and start with batch so I can go back to stock if I break it.

Thanks for all the build photos and directions, man! Going to move my AC over to pe1 thru in1 too. That is still relevant, right? Sounds like the best way to do it..
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Old 08-20-2014, 12:20 AM   #17
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If one were to follow DIYautotune's directions for a stock miata 0/1 TPS, you shouldn't ever be able to calibrate the TPS right?

I have 1K resistor between TPS Sig and ground. TPS numbers seem crazy, different all the time, but always climbing. Setting the low/high usually gives a number one higher than the other, but soon after the TPS gauge starts climbing like crazy. I just need to do one of the TPS mods and quit being lazy...

My AFR seems off too, reads 16.9 though the MTX-L is maxed out lean on the gauge. I don't have internets at my shop and couldn't find the cal AFR table, doh!
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:48 PM   #18
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I just built one, I think you will need an alternator controller circuit. WestfieldMX5 also sells them prebuilt.

Also, looking at you picture, don't the 4x injector outputs go to 4W,X,Y,Z? I don't see those on your board, just see the SInj board going to 3 and 4 in the proto area.

Also, I dont see PA0 to relay1 for fan control.
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:07 AM   #19
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This is a NA6 there are no more injectors on the stock harness, those "3&4" follow the board through to the other injector ports under the microsquirt board. Since that pic I jumped them directly to my DB-15.

And I'm pretty sure my alt handles itself. Seems both would be true on a NB/1.8, though.

I use wled for fan relay, PA0 is much more valuable to me as a boost control output. PE1 is my AC, and PE0 will hopefully work as launch control input.
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Old 08-21-2014, 09:02 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post


Think I have everything right, except I may just move the 3/4 injectors straight to db15 off the seq. PCB. Not actually wired for it yet, probably try and start with batch so I can go back to stock if I break it.
Where else where you going to wire them? The stock 90-93 harness only has 2 injector outputs. They HAVE to go througth the DB15 and then all the way back to the engine bay, into your custom injector harness you make just for seq. fueling.


Quote:
Going to move my AC over to pe1 thru in1 too. That is still relevant, right? Sounds like the best way to do it..
yup, inputting an input into a free input is still relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
If one were to follow DIYautotune's directions for a stock miata 0/1 TPS, you shouldn't ever be able to calibrate the TPS right?
You'd still want to calibrate it, but manually, since closed/open will give you the same value. you'll want to calibrate it so the OPEN value is above the value that you're getting at closed; whatever it may be.

Quote:
I have 1K resistor between TPS Sig and ground. TPS numbers seem crazy, different all the time, but always climbing. Setting the low/high usually gives a number one higher than the other, but soon after the TPS gauge starts climbing like crazy. I just need to do one of the TPS mods and quit being lazy...
Then you dont have a 1K resistor between TPS signal and ground.

Quote:
My AFR seems off too, reads 16.9 though the MTX-L is maxed out lean on the gauge. I don't have internets at my shop and couldn't find the cal AFR table, doh!
Did you calibrate it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
I use wled for fan relay, PA0 is much more valuable to me as a boost control output. PE1 is my AC, and PE0 will hopefully work as launch control input.
what are you going to put a/c out on? ALED?
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