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Old 11-25-2015, 10:56 AM   #21
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You are better off with a base tune rather than reusing that tune that was dialed in for a different setup.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:00 AM   #22
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Yeah, scrap all that junk, get a base map, and start UNDERSTANDING the settings that you will be slowly changing one by one. Or at least understand enough to get the car to run, then take to tuner.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:00 AM   #23
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It wasn't just blindly used. I do know the wiring and stuff is different. If you will notice that was all changed. The timing, fuel map, idle settings, and a few other items were moved to the 99 basemap from diy. As well as the ignition settings from. Msm basemap. I'm an INfrastructure Admin, not a tuner.

I know I am a tuning newb, but not a complete idiot. Just an idiot when it comes to timing and fuel maps.

This got the car running and to be honest, aside from the stutter it ran like a champ. I did not realize the timing was so horrible though. It did however keep my AFRs in a nice comfortable range.

I do however feel less than confident in my two friends who are supposedly good tuners, that never realized this was the issue while trying to help me solve this problem.... Instead they kept suggesting coil issues. Which I have tested a dozen times. No problems.
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viriiguy View Post
It did however keep my AFRs in a nice comfortable range.
And this type statement is why we think you may be an idiot. Because it didn't.

New approach for you:
- Research
- Research some more
- Then do some research
- And when you are certain you got it, do some more research

And then come back and ask intelligent questions. Or pay somebody to have your car tuned and omit all previous steps.
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:55 PM   #25
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First I am a newb too so please take my advice with a grain of salt. But I would try a base map from the diypnp instructions and change it from there or at least take the spark table from the base map.
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Old 11-26-2015, 01:25 AM   #26
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finally had a chance to look at the tune

wow

lol
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:52 AM   #27
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I am the type of person who likes to educate themselves.. And I have done some reading.. Obviously not enough. So would one of you help me to understand why the tune is so horrible? I do know I had no knock with this setup.. But obviously I am not running my best.

That way, after new years, when the car goes back together, I can better attack the issue at hand.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:59 AM   #28
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Tuning is the most daunting part of playing with cars. I still don't get it, I hate electrical demons, I can't seem to balance all the variables at once. I admire folks who have a handle on it.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:12 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viriiguy View Post
I am the type of person who likes to educate themselves.. And I have done some reading.. Obviously not enough. So would one of you help me to understand why the tune is so horrible?
Tough love in this post. You've been warned.

Let's start with the timing map that you're going to blow your engine up on.

Stock ECUs run 24deg of timing at 100kpa. General rule of thumb says you need to pull ~1 degree for every ~7kpa of boost you add. This is a rough estimate that will get you a fairly conservative map. You might need to pull more than this in the midrange (peak torque is where detonation is most likely to happen), and you might pull less at high RPM to prop up the powerband.

At peak torque (5200rpm), you are running 25deg at 4psi and 24deg of timing at 7psi. IOW, you're essentially running what the stock ECU would request, and adding 7psi on top of that. This would be agressive on E85. It's suicidal on pump gas. If you don't think it's pinging, it's because you can't hear it.

Ignition maps should be taken from a known good basemap and not fucked with by amateurs. If you want to learn how to tune them, start by googling "MBST" or "minimum timing for best torque" and read for a few hours. The difference between "safe forever" and "blown up in an afternoon" is as little as 5 degrees in most cases.



Moving onto the fuel map that some "tuner" fucked with. Your "misfire" is caused by the fuel map jumping from 104%VE to 145%VE between 4500 and 5000rpm at 150kpa (7psi). The cell above that 145% cell is set to 81%, which means that your ECU will deliver about half the fuel at 10.5psi/5000rpm as it does at 7psi/5000rpm. Does that sound reasonable?

Fuel maps should smoothly transition from cell to cell. Idle cells should all be the same, or nearly the same, and fuel requirements should rise and fall with the torque curve (essentially). When viewed in 3D View, the fuel map should look like a rolling hill, not like a jagged bunch of rocks. Your fuel map looks like a seismograph during an earthquake in some places.

If a customer brought me this map to tune, I would zero the entire map and start from scratch.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:18 PM   #30
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Here's a pic of the 3D views of my current fuel/spark maps (don't ask me for numeric values). The fuel is still a rough tune because I've been playing with IAT settings, and the spark map is only tuned through ~12psi. Compare the fuel map in particular to your fuel map to get an idea of why we think it's so bad.

Attached Thumbnails
Stutter at 5k and I just can't figure it out.-me.png  
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:02 PM   #31
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Where would be a good place to find a conservative ignition map to get started with?
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:25 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeOtter View Post
Where would be a good place to find a conservative ignition map to get started with?

Going out on a limb here but one newb to another.
Diypnp base timing map for 1.6 turbo?
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Old 12-02-2015, 01:01 AM   #33
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I would use the maps from the diy 94-95 turbo tune. It works well to get ya started.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:03 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Tough love in this post. You've been warned.
Thank you very VERY much! In all the threads I have read.. This is the first time this **** has made sense to me!!
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:48 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Tough love in this post. You've been warned.





eventually youll make so many of these posts youll start to see why i just give ******* responses to MS issues anymore.
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Old 12-04-2015, 08:58 AM   #36
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eventually youll make so many of these posts youll start to see why i just give ******* responses to MS issues anymore.
I for one am glad he did answer this time
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:20 AM   #37
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that and i dont have TS at work :P
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