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Old 05-02-2011, 01:34 PM   #81
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do you? The jackson FMU and stock FPR work together.

The Jackson FMU clamps down on the return line only when it sees boost. It is completely transparent in vacuum/atmospheric.

Since pressure is a measurement of restriction, when the FMU closes the return line, the fuel pressure increases, giving you more capacity out of smaller injectors. You not need/want the FMU installed when running MS. The MS can directly control pulse widths, the FMU is used to make small injectors big. Your 440cc injectors have plenty of fuel behind them with the stock rail pressure using the stock FPR.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:47 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
do you? The jackson FMU and stock FPR work together.

The Jackson FMU clamps down on the return line only when it sees boost. It is completely transparent in vacuum/atmospheric.

Since pressure is a measurement of restriction, when the FMU closes the return line, the fuel pressure increases, giving you more capacity out of smaller injectors. You not need/want the FMU installed when running MS. The MS can directly control pulse widths, the FMU is used to make small injectors big. Your 440cc injectors have plenty of fuel behind them with the stock rail pressure using the stock FPR.
Haha Yes. I do indeed understand how a FPR works. Thank you for the words on Jackson. I suppose I was unaware that the Jackson was designed to work with the stock. I should basically just run the stock to try to eliminate my issues? Or replace both with an adjustable?
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:55 PM   #83
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Haha Yes. I do indeed understand how a FPR works. Thank you for the words on Jackson. I suppose I was unaware that the Jackson was designed to work with the stock. I should basically just run the stock to try to eliminate my issues? Or replace both with an adjustable?
Remove the Jackson FMU and run your stock FPR (connected to manifold pressure, of course).

Eliminate variables. That's key.

Brain, when I looked at his log (*.xls file), it had a column called "Fuel Press." It was really noisy. Any idea what that is logging?
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:00 PM   #84
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just pull the vacuum line to the JR FMU, leave the stock FPR, and go from there.


I dunno, its a random data feed that means nothing. I couldn't tell you what it's acutally displaying.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:19 PM   #85
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Since this is JDM it's a safe purchase right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PURPL...item588dca91f6

Or should I just buy a real one? I have a gauge on my fuel system now and I'm running about 50 PSI at idle with the Jackson.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:22 PM   #86
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just use the stock FPR
Disconnect the vacuum reference line to the FMU
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:14 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Dem768 View Post
Since this is JDM it's a safe purchase right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PURPL...item588dca91f6

Or should I just buy a real one? I have a gauge on my fuel system now and I'm running about 50 PSI at idle with the Jackson.
High fuel pressure + large injectors makes it much more difficult to achieve a satisfactory idle. Give your MS a break and do what Brain and Techsalvager recommended.
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:43 PM   #88
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Done- Let me know if you have any feedback on that startup. Car is running pretty rich now with the stock fpr.
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:54 PM   #89
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so lean it out?
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:39 PM   #90
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This is the obvious solution. Thought I'd mention it because that means the Jackson had an effect on the fuel at idle and before boost. At any rate- I'll run the stocker and re-tune my fuel.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:16 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Post MSQ.
didn't have the right computer on me earlier ... but here's my msq!

edit: another thing i've been wondering.. sometimes i turn the key.. engine starts, then stalls (before i got the cold start working, but now it happens with the warm start). then i turn the key again and the starter motor doesn't go. a couple tries and still no starter motor turning. then i have to wait a min or so or press the gas pedal to the floor as i turn the key (to crank without the injectors giving fuel) and the starter motor goes and the car starts.

is there a setting in MS that prevents the starter from cranking every time i turn the key? or are all my actions just coincidence and really either the battery or starter is about to die? battery reads anywhere from 11.4V to 12.2V when these incidents have occured
Attached Files
File Type: zip 99ina95.zip (6.5 KB, 60 views)

Last edited by minileprechaun; 05-02-2011 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:40 PM   #92
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ignition switch controls starter.

engine stalling is bad cranking/ASE/warmup/idle settings.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:35 PM   #93
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ignition switch controls starter.

engine stalling is bad cranking/ASE/warmup/idle settings.
gotcha ... if the starter doesn't work .. something outside MS is the issue.

within MS, in the more closed-loop settings, there a place for setting constants:
A)time for closing the idle control valve between steps
and
B)time to wait after engine starts before closed-loop kicks on

right now those are set as .2sec each. is that way to low?
i set (B) to .2 sec (kept going lower and lower until it stopped the engine from stalling after ignition.. was originally set at 25.5sec). by doing this, am i using a band-aid instead of solving some other issue that's really causing post ignition stalling?

next question:
while the engine is warming up .. how should the engine/RPMs react? should the RPMs be relatively steady at my fast idle RPM until the car warms up, then drop to my slow idle RPM?
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Old 05-03-2011, 04:56 PM   #94
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These are both current. Just now tried to cold start the car and it stalled.
Don't see anything glaringly wrong. The log wasn't particularly useful. Never got below 71kPa on MAP. Therefore, couldn't see how it related to idle settings (you never idled).

I would concentrate on getting a stable idle and addressing stalls later. The stalling will be all about Crank/WarmUp settings and making sure everything mechanical (like an Air Valve) is in good working order.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:00 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by minileprechaun View Post
didn't have the right computer on me earlier ... but here's my msq!
In closed loop, your fast recovery time period is slow and your slow recovery time period is fast. Once you get things stable with VE and ignition, a slow recovery time period around 1Hz (or even slower) works well.

Your startup delay shows up as only 0.02 seconds!! Give it a bit more time before launching off into closed loop corrections.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:34 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Don't see anything glaringly wrong. The log wasn't particularly useful. Never got below 71kPa on MAP. Therefore, couldn't see how it related to idle settings (you never idled).

I would concentrate on getting a stable idle and addressing stalls later. The stalling will be all about Crank/WarmUp settings and making sure everything mechanical (like an Air Valve) is in good working order.
Well after looking everything over last night I've decided to order a new engine harness and re route all of my vacuum lines. The engine bay is a mess and it's not my style.

Off topic but I'm asking because I know you've done it. What output wire do I use to activate my water injection? I have a pressure switch installed now but I'd like to have more control. Couldn't find it in my manual.
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Old 05-03-2011, 07:26 PM   #97
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Excellent thread!


This is the first time that I have begun to understand the idle settings.


Hornetball and Braineak, please discuss Spark Table Switching for AC.

I have a Braineak built MS1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Help tab' under Spark Table selection
If NOS System not selected and Second Spark Table selected then the base map will change from ST1 to ST2 when JP1 pin6 is switched low.
Does this mean that I have to make hardware changes? Or is there some settings that can be changed?
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:14 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
In closed loop, your fast recovery time period is slow and your slow recovery time period is fast. Once you get things stable with VE and ignition, a slow recovery time period around 1Hz (or even slower) works well.

Your startup delay shows up as only 0.02 seconds!! Give it a bit more time before launching off into closed loop corrections.
point to note ... megatune and tunerstudio appear to have different decimal places. i think megatune is x0.01sec and tunerstudio is x0.1sec. not sure if opening up an MSQ (from tunerstudio) in megatune will count for the difference in decimal. for instance, startup delay in my system is 0.2sec.. and you wrote you saw 0.02 sec.. is that a type, or is that how it was displayed in megatune? with that in mind .. my fast recover is 1.4sec and slow recovery is 2.1sec.

hmm.. this confused me a bit more. which way do the numbers need to go to account for being too slow or too fast? i tried changing fast recovery from 14 (in steps) down to 7 and that didn't help with my warm up RPM jumping around.
also moved the slow recovery from 21 down to 10 and up to 30 in steps. once again, it wasn't a conclusive fix. in the late afternoon, with a warm car, slow recovery at 30 gave a engine an idle that ranged from 850-950. without any spikes in RPM or AFR. But then the same setting, a couple hours later had the RPMs ranging from 600-1800 with a warm car.

Same results with ASE. I increased that in the afternoon, enough to keep the car alive after ignition. But that level was not enough to keep the car alive later in the evening.

i changed the closed loop startup delay from 0.2sec to 10sec. and it seems to work.. maybe i need it lower to help catch the engine after ignition?

attached is an MSQ i used today and a log of the car idling and some driving on that MSQ. i have attempted some tweaks to the msq .. but not enough to fix my issues yet.
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File Type: zip 99ina95 5_3_2011.zip (134.9 KB, 34 views)
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:46 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dem768 View Post
Well after looking everything over last night I've decided to order a new engine harness and re route all of my vacuum lines. The engine bay is a mess and it's not my style.

Off topic but I'm asking because I know you've done it. What output wire do I use to activate my water injection? I have a pressure switch installed now but I'd like to have more control. Couldn't find it in my manual.
Yeah, the more I see of your issue, the more I think it is something fundamental outside of the MS. The MS really can't rev the car to 4000RPM because it doesn't have access to a device that can introduce that much air to the engine.

For WI, you need to add a circuit to the MS. My build thread includes detailed schematics on what I did internally (pictures even!).
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:51 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by 94mx5red View Post
[B]Hornetball and Braineak, please discuss Spark Table Switching for AC.

I have a Braineak built MS1.

Does this mean that I have to make hardware changes? Or is there some settings that can be changed?
You'll need to add circuits in the prototyping area to do spark table switching (perhaps Brain does those mods as "extras"?).

My build thread has detailed wiring diagrams for the changes I made to my MSPNP. Unfortunately, the pad and pin references in those diagrams will not be directly applicable to a standard MS1. But they do give you an idea on what needs to be done.
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